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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After 132,000 miles and 19 years, my cooling fan motor has given up the ghost. I know that the problem is not the 40A fuse, the relays, the temp sensor, or the connector - honest, the motor is D E A D.

My questions are:

1) Are replacement motors available? At first, I was hopeful that it might be a standard Bosch motor, perhaps one that was also used on an Audi or BMW. But when I pulled my old one, it was marked "Fiat". Even if I could have the old motor rebuilt, the old connector is very melted from the exhaust heat. So, I'm leaning toward alternative #2:

2) Has anyone successfully fitted an aftermarket electric fan to a 164, like the Hayden model pictured below? It would simplify things if I could retain the original fan shroud & mounting bracket. That shroud has a 15" dia. hole, and of course, aftermarket fans come in even inch sizes (e.g., 12", 14", 16", ...). But, a modern 14" fan would probably move more cfm than the 15" OE fan. The question is, which manufacturer's 14" fan could be adapted?

2a) If anyone has fitted an aftermarket fan, did you retain the 2-speed feature?
 

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Jay-
I assume you tried 12v direct to your fan motor-I used a spare battery and went direct to from the posts to the fan.
I just called Larry at APE and got a used motor from him, as I was going to the 2006 convention. It was simple, stock, cheaper, and still works fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yup, +12v and ground to the connectors produces nada. Plus, turning the blades by hand requires some force - it definitely doesn't spin easily.

I suppose the simplest solution would be to just buy a used motor from APE and bolt it in. My concern is that the replacement motor might fail fairly soon - all of these parts are pushing 20 years old. Also, you really don't know that your fan motor has died until the engine overheats - the electric fan is a fairly "mission critical" component on a 164. I'd like a little more peace of mind.
 

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No no

These motors are so easy to fix its crazy. There are two bearings to replace, as long as its not burned up (electrically) its a 2 hours job to swap out the bearings and make it all new again

DO a search on this forum for cooling fan rebuild, steve gives a great write up - I have done 2 of them and they are good as new after rebuild
 

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Did you have the aluminum heat shield on back of motor?
 

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The brushes were totally shot on mine. Spent quite a bit of time trying to find replacements with no joy.
I think Jay wants to aftermarket.
 

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Brushes

I know that finding brushes to be an exact fit is difficult. What you can do is get oversize and then just shape them to fit ; the material is soft enought generally. I like to use silver solver when possible but often not possible, regular solder will do generally

bob
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Did you have the aluminum heat shield on back of motor?
Steve: Yes that headshield was in place.

One thing that concerns me about putting in an aftermarket fan is that I will have to rig up some sort of alternate heatsheild, as the fan
really does get cooked by the front header.

I found the fan pictured below on the Summit website - it seems like it might work since it is all-metal (most aftermarket fans have plastic frames), and it looks like a heatshield could be mounted to those four bolts that hold the motor to the "arms". Of course I would need to make a bracket to mount it to the radiator frame.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this plan?
 

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I don't think there's any good reason to go to the aftermarket for a 164 fan. They last a long time and I think you would have to be unlucky to get a used one that craps out on you right away. I also think the OEM shrouding is very important to pull the air through the radiator and the condenser. If you do go aftermarket it will likely be a lower quality unit to start with than the OEM FIAT/Magnetti Marelli (or whoever makes them for FIAT/Alfa) made one as well (and might even be a Chinese unit if you are not careful). If the OEM one is rebuildable to any degree, it is going to be a better unit than aftermarket. IMHO.
Charles
 

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Bite the bullet and buy a 16" Spal high output. It will use about the same
or less current and cool 100% better. Or use a dual fan and run one on the
low wire and both on the high speed wire. Might cost a little bit but they are
good fans.
 

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The only thing that I have found is that the aftermarket fans tend to sound like a turbine. On high people can hear you coming a block away. There may be some brands out there that aren't so noisy.

Paul
 

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Spal makes curved blade fans that are very quiet for the CFM's. Ferrari,
Aston, Maserati and Lamboroghini Have been using them for years. We
aren't talking about a crappy Pep boys Hayden fan here.
 

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Jay, I have had one like in your pic on my car for a few years now. It's mounted to the OEM radiator shroud, which BTW they don't recommend. Just one speed, and Paul is right, it's noisy when you're outside the car.

I have it rigged with an aftermarket adjustable control that turns it on at about 195 degrees. The same control has a separate lead to turn it on with the AC, again at full speed.

Flex-a lite has a solid state variable speed control that would be better, runs the fan at 60% with the AC, and starts there for cooling too. Then it speeds up as needed according to the engine heat. I should have bought that one. (FLX 31163)

Also available from Summit.

Hope this helps. Dennis.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Stock, Spal, or Perma-Cool (the metal unit in the photo I posted on 06/21 at 8:10 am) - wow, I'm now totally confused!

I like the Perma-Cool because it is all metal. I worry that any fan with a plastic frame - be it a high-quality Spal, or a Pep Boys special - is going to melt when exposed to the heat from the front header.

The Perma-Cool fan probably is noisy. With straight blades, and 2900cfm it probably does sound like a turbine. But, will I hear it from inside the car? If I won't, then I'm not really concerned.

The cost of the 16" Spal ($114) is less than the 16" Perma-Cool ($127). I wonder how those prices compare with the cost of rebuilding my old fan motor?

While mounting an aftermarket fan would probably require me to jettison the shroud, I'm not sure why it's so important. Sure when the fan is running, the shroud ensures that all of the radiator & condensor area sees airflow. But 95% of the time, the car is moving fast enough for the ambient airflow to handle the cooling, and that air flows through all of the radiator & condensor area. In fact, it would seem that while the car is moving, the shroud would impede airflow.

Clearly rebuilding my old motor, and just bolting it back in, would be the simplest solution. But, where would I find someone who could re-bush and find brushes for a FIAT motor? And, how do I solve the melted connector problem?

Well, at least I have sparked some discussion, and gotten some opinions here. Thanks!
 

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It wouldn't be that hard to modify the shroud to fit the Spal fan. Brushes
should be easy to find any motor shop will have ones that are close, then
they can be filed or sanded to size. New bearings will be the tough part.
might be some cross ref. Motor is most likely made by Marelli or Bosch
and stamped Fiat. You may have shorted turns in the armature.
probably not worth the hassle of a partial re-build.

I have a 14" Spal fan on my Lotus 7 replica. Curved blade High Performance
It's not very loud. I had a straight blade 12" mounted on my 142 Track car
and it is a good bit louder. The Spal MOVES A LOT OF AIR.
 

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bearings are cheap

about 15 bucks apiece and Steve has posted the numbers, you can buy at Grainger

What you say Jay is true - at speed, there is little reason to have the fan on at all. But thats not where the cooling problem occurs typcailly! We need to insure that at standstill adequate air can be drawn through the radiator. When you are traffic jammed (happens all the time here in SoCal) for example. ESPECIALLY when you have been cruising at 70 for 20-30 minutes, the engine compartment las a lot of latent heat build up, now we come to a jam. Pretty much the single reason to have the fan in there!

So its 30 bucks bearings, call it 10 for brushes, and a few hours of work to rebuild you motor as long as the fields and coils are not shorted (I doubt they would be) --- While you are in there you can clean up the shroud and fan blades, etc etc
 

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Bearings are easy to get, like has been said, from Grainger or anywhere that sells bearings (even eBay). They are a standard size. I bought some just for insurance and haven't really needed them yet so they are still in a box. The shroud is important for when you are not moving.
Charles
 

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Heck, if the bearings are off the shelf items and the brushes are easy to replace
then rebuilding is the way to go. A better fan controller would be nice, rather than just a two speed setup that burns a resistor. Spal makes a nice controller
that uses a temp sensor and is configurable. Variable speed and it has
AC/ towing turn on.
 
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