Convention News / Pics
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Convention Concours July 11, 2013
Alfa Romeo 6C2500 "tribute" to chassis 915007. It is not the only similar tribute car that exists today so there is a chance of confusion even today as to which car we are looking at when we are lucky enough to come across one. This is the first time I have seen this car and it was very nice!
I do not know which chassis was used to build this car during somewhat recent years. I've not inspected it closely but my camera saw a few interesting things at the Concours. The chassis is stamped with an engine number in a non-typical location for any number on a 6C chassis. That number is "923882" and it is not in a font style typical of Alfa Romeo so I presume it to be a more recent legal "convenience" than indicative of actual early history. Nevertheless, it may be an interesting clue? Engine 923882 has been reported in the past but the data is confused and uncertain so I cannot be certain enough of details to share them here.
The front suspension units on chassis (engine) "923882" are from a somewhat early 6C2300B Pescara, probably dating from 1935 or perhaps 1936.
The Milano plate number (MI49865) was first issued 18 June 1934 to a Fiat 508 (Balilla) berlina but the number became available for reuse when that car was sold to another area of Italy where new plates were issued for it. Milano was the only locale (1928-1940circa) in which plates were actively re-issued ... so as to not issue any plate numbered higher than the highest number issued in Rome. This was because of an edict/law that came from Mussolini's fascist desire to promote Roma as being more important than other areas of the country. In any case, the Milano plate MI49865 was issued again on 14 March 1939 to the Alfa Romeo 6C2500 chassis 915007 and, if all was done in normal fashion at Alfa Romeo, we might presume that the legal identity was adopted for one car that went through some visible changes. Chassis 915007 is reported to exist today so we may presume that this car is not 915007 despite the license plate used for display.
The body is a faithful copy of that which was made by Touring for use on chassis 915007 in 1939 and 1940. Some changes were made between its two racing appearances as a berlinetta. Chassis 915007 had already raced earlier in 1939 in the Tobruk-Tripoli race with a spider body fitted. To be more precise, it was the same chassis identity and registration in use from the Tobruk Race (2nd overall with Biondetti and a spider corsa body) to Le Mans 1939 (Biondetti/Sommer with berlinetta body) and then to the Gran Premio di Brescia delle Mille Miglia of 1940 where the car (in updated berlinetta form) was 8th overall.
Historically and technically, many questions remain, but there is no doubt that it is very nice to see this car in the flesh today, no matter the specific origins of the components used to build it. Veramente bella!
Alfa Romeo 6C2500 "tribute" to chassis 915007. It is not the only similar tribute car that exists today so there is a chance of confusion even today as to which car we are looking at when we are lucky enough to come across one. This is the first time I have seen this car and it was very nice!
I do not know which chassis was used to build this car during somewhat recent years. I've not inspected it closely but my camera saw a few interesting things at the Concours. The chassis is stamped with an engine number in a non-typical location for any number on a 6C chassis. That number is "923882" and it is not in a font style typical of Alfa Romeo so I presume it to be a more recent legal "convenience" than indicative of actual early history. Nevertheless, it may be an interesting clue? Engine 923882 has been reported in the past but the data is confused and uncertain so I cannot be certain enough of details to share them here.
The front suspension units on chassis (engine) "923882" are from a somewhat early 6C2300B Pescara, probably dating from 1935 or perhaps 1936.
The Milano plate number (MI49865) was first issued 18 June 1934 to a Fiat 508 (Balilla) berlina but the number became available for reuse when that car was sold to another area of Italy where new plates were issued for it. Milano was the only locale (1928-1940circa) in which plates were actively re-issued ... so as to not issue any plate numbered higher than the highest number issued in Rome. This was because of an edict/law that came from Mussolini's fascist desire to promote Roma as being more important than other areas of the country. In any case, the Milano plate MI49865 was issued again on 14 March 1939 to the Alfa Romeo 6C2500 chassis 915007 and, if all was done in normal fashion at Alfa Romeo, we might presume that the legal identity was adopted for one car that went through some visible changes. Chassis 915007 is reported to exist today so we may presume that this car is not 915007 despite the license plate used for display.
The body is a faithful copy of that which was made by Touring for use on chassis 915007 in 1939 and 1940. Some changes were made between its two racing appearances as a berlinetta. Chassis 915007 had already raced earlier in 1939 in the Tobruk-Tripoli race with a spider body fitted. To be more precise, it was the same chassis identity and registration in use from the Tobruk Race (2nd overall with Biondetti and a spider corsa body) to Le Mans 1939 (Biondetti/Sommer with berlinetta body) and then to the Gran Premio di Brescia delle Mille Miglia of 1940 where the car (in updated berlinetta form) was 8th overall.
Historically and technically, many questions remain, but there is no doubt that it is very nice to see this car in the flesh today, no matter the specific origins of the components used to build it. Veramente bella!
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Convention Concours July 11, 2013
Alfa Romeo 6C2500 Sport, chassis 915128. I first saw this car at an auction preview during a swap meet my father and I attended 1981 in Pecatonica, Illinois. We were driving cross-country and the swap meet was listed in Hemmings so we made a slight detour. It was mere chance that there was an auction (Kruse?) that was set to happen in the same location. This was the first 6C2500 I gathered a bit of data from. Made some notes about what was said by the representative for the car without realizing that I'd become more and more interested in gathering and studying data about these cars. Much work has been done over the years since 1981 and the car is looking pretty good ... although far too bright (and red) for a product of wartime Europe ... right in the thick of things. I have an idea that this specific car was being bodied 1942-43 by Touring for a German dealer as Alfa Romeo was being bombed by the Allies. Somehow, it survived the war years and made its way to the USA by 1960. Stylistically, the nose has features that were not put into normal production until 1946 and this is one of very few cars completed 1943 to have this nose styling. We can identify only three that survive, each with features that vary slightly. We could call this sort of construction "serial uniqueness"?
Alfa Romeo 6C2500 Sport, chassis 915128. I first saw this car at an auction preview during a swap meet my father and I attended 1981 in Pecatonica, Illinois. We were driving cross-country and the swap meet was listed in Hemmings so we made a slight detour. It was mere chance that there was an auction (Kruse?) that was set to happen in the same location. This was the first 6C2500 I gathered a bit of data from. Made some notes about what was said by the representative for the car without realizing that I'd become more and more interested in gathering and studying data about these cars. Much work has been done over the years since 1981 and the car is looking pretty good ... although far too bright (and red) for a product of wartime Europe ... right in the thick of things. I have an idea that this specific car was being bodied 1942-43 by Touring for a German dealer as Alfa Romeo was being bombed by the Allies. Somehow, it survived the war years and made its way to the USA by 1960. Stylistically, the nose has features that were not put into normal production until 1946 and this is one of very few cars completed 1943 to have this nose styling. We can identify only three that survive, each with features that vary slightly. We could call this sort of construction "serial uniqueness"?
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Convention Concours July 11, 2013
1948 Nardi-Danese Alfa Romeo, chassis 948-5
This is one of six cars that were planned for completion in time for the Mille Miglia of 1948. Unfortunately, Renato Balestrero (1947 Italian racing champion) was one of the customers but was killed in a silly & tragic accident within a few days of the early 1948 announcement of the intent. Chassis 948-5 was purchased by Mario Tadini, a successful prewar racer who'd driven for Alfa Romeo and Scuderia Ferrari, perhaps mostly as a wealthy patron(?), but there is no doubt that he had some driving talent as well. The car failed to complete the Mille Miglia (race #30) but Tadini raced it at least twice more during 1948 on some hillclimbs where he was 2nd in class on at least one occasion. The car came to the USA by late 1949 and seems to have first raced here on 3 January 1950 at the Palm Beach Shores Road Race.
This car has a tubular truss-type chassis designed by Augusto Monaco and various production components from different manufacturers were grafted together with Nardi-designed adapters. The body is by Motto in a siluro style with "parafanghini motociclistici" (motorcycle-type fenders) that would have been modernized had the car remained in Italy to do any racing from 1952 onwards. These types of fenders were banned for 1952.
1948 Nardi-Danese Alfa Romeo, chassis 948-5
This is one of six cars that were planned for completion in time for the Mille Miglia of 1948. Unfortunately, Renato Balestrero (1947 Italian racing champion) was one of the customers but was killed in a silly & tragic accident within a few days of the early 1948 announcement of the intent. Chassis 948-5 was purchased by Mario Tadini, a successful prewar racer who'd driven for Alfa Romeo and Scuderia Ferrari, perhaps mostly as a wealthy patron(?), but there is no doubt that he had some driving talent as well. The car failed to complete the Mille Miglia (race #30) but Tadini raced it at least twice more during 1948 on some hillclimbs where he was 2nd in class on at least one occasion. The car came to the USA by late 1949 and seems to have first raced here on 3 January 1950 at the Palm Beach Shores Road Race.
This car has a tubular truss-type chassis designed by Augusto Monaco and various production components from different manufacturers were grafted together with Nardi-designed adapters. The body is by Motto in a siluro style with "parafanghini motociclistici" (motorcycle-type fenders) that would have been modernized had the car remained in Italy to do any racing from 1952 onwards. These types of fenders were banned for 1952.
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I thought I saw 2 Montreals. Oh and the Milanos were found in their natural habitat... the race track
I got a ton of great pics from both days. Prolly not going to post the bunch and wish I would have gotten more action shots.
Dito from GotBlueMilk was there taking great action shots both days and I have included the links below. If you see stuff you like you can order CDs from him and prints and some other cool options.
GBM - Day One - Alfas at Sonoma
GBM - Day Two - Alfas at Sonoma
Good seeing you/eating your tire dust again :laugh: If we can get an Alfa contingent for Sonoma or Laguna, I'm in.
Aside from a few blown up motors and VERY long cleanups, things ran pretty well and loads of fun.
^^THIS
Couple shots of me from GBM shows their work.
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In regards to running an Alfa only track day, I think we need to realize this was a national event and we still didn't get the numbers we expected. The HOD school was only half full at the reduced price of $295(normal price is $350) and this was only after opening the event to other makes(Ferrari, Fiat, Porsche, etc). I ran 5-20 minute sessions with and without great instructors who were really pushing me by the end of the day. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
As the current VP of the ARA, I would love to see us have an active track and autocross program like we did back in the day. But, we need the members to step up and participate.
As the current VP of the ARA, I would love to see us have an active track and autocross program like we did back in the day. But, we need the members to step up and participate.
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Agreed. I've run AROSC schools and TTs for 15 years, and the organizers there could bore you for hours about getting folks out to the track. There was a period a few years ago where several events were canceled due to lack of signups. Club loses money either way in that circumstance.
AROSC has run co-events with NCRC, generally work pretty well as mostly compatible folks and rules. The thing with running Alfas with other groups though, is that most of the Alfas are quite slow (at least the four-cylinder cars are) compared to Lotuses, Porsches, Mustangs, M3s, Corvettes, etc. that you see at most open-track speed events. I've done some of them in my GTV and Super race car, and it's just not that fun, as you're getting passed all the time and trying to stay clean and out of faster folks' way. So I've stopped doing those. That was one of my main motivations to run with CSRG, to be on the track with compatible, interesting sports cars, but also ones that are roughly my speed.
AROSC events are open to anyone, typically my recollection is 25-30% Alfas nowadays, lots of BMWs, Corvettes, Porsches etc in the non-Alfa groups. If it were limited to Alfas only, wouldn't be enough to field an event.
I don't think there are any easy answers here or we'd have found them by now.
Andrew
AROSC has run co-events with NCRC, generally work pretty well as mostly compatible folks and rules. The thing with running Alfas with other groups though, is that most of the Alfas are quite slow (at least the four-cylinder cars are) compared to Lotuses, Porsches, Mustangs, M3s, Corvettes, etc. that you see at most open-track speed events. I've done some of them in my GTV and Super race car, and it's just not that fun, as you're getting passed all the time and trying to stay clean and out of faster folks' way. So I've stopped doing those. That was one of my main motivations to run with CSRG, to be on the track with compatible, interesting sports cars, but also ones that are roughly my speed.
AROSC events are open to anyone, typically my recollection is 25-30% Alfas nowadays, lots of BMWs, Corvettes, Porsches etc in the non-Alfa groups. If it were limited to Alfas only, wouldn't be enough to field an event.
I don't think there are any easy answers here or we'd have found them by now.
Andrew
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You didn't look very hard.
My Class H dominating Berlina was on the track for the drivers school (daughter), autocross (wife), and time trials (me). When it wasn't there, it was in the hotel parking lot.
First place in class H for the time trials, whoo hoo!!
bs
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I am making a few minor corrections, they will be posted on the AlfaCalifornia2013 web page in the next couple of days.
bs
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2,209 Posts
I'm still sleeping.
I'm making a couple of minor corrections, they will be posted on the AlfaCalifornia2013 web page in the next couple of days.
bs
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2,209 Posts
We took a *huge* loss on the track events. At this point we are not sure if we will be breaking even on the overall convention, mostly due to the huge loss we are taking on the track.
All Alfa day at Sonoma? Andrew is correct. We spent months *begging* people to sign up, including calling people individually, and inviting pretty much every car club in the Bay area to show up.
That said, it was a blast, if somebody else makes the arrangements, I will be there!
bs
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Had a great time at the Time Trials. That track is an absolute Blast!!
Drove the hail out of my bought sight unseen GTV6, and didn't blow it up!!
Got a 2:20, not too bad for first time out, I guess. Fun Factor was epic though!
I want to thank Brian and all the great people who ran the event, well done. You made it easy to have Fun.
Now I'm driving this tried and true GTV6 to Denver. Love the deserts!
Drove the hail out of my bought sight unseen GTV6, and didn't blow it up!!
Got a 2:20, not too bad for first time out, I guess. Fun Factor was epic though!
I want to thank Brian and all the great people who ran the event, well done. You made it easy to have Fun.
Now I'm driving this tried and true GTV6 to Denver. Love the deserts!
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Guess I should have been there. What were the temperatures like on the track?You didn't look very hard.
My Class H dominating Berlina was on the track for the drivers school (daughter), autocross (wife), and time trials (me). When it wasn't there, it was in the hotel parking lot.
First place in class H for the time trials, whoo hoo!!
bs
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After the 115 degrees at Buttonwillow the week before, it seemed a bit chilly.
Seriously, I think we saw 105 degrees on Tuesday, but it didn't feel that hot.
bs
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129 Posts
At the Convertion
I had a BALL at Track Day. Tuesday I got a ride in the other Red Italian car, a 430, for about 10 or 12 laps. I couldn't count as I was grinning too much. On Wednesday it was time to see how fast we were going. I got space and tried the lines and improved my time as the day went on. I love my car, my mechanical help Karen, the track, the wine and the weather. I didn't care if it was hot, I was having FUN. OK, here is a picture of me coming down the back side, or the "S"es. A fast part in 3rd and then 4th gear as you drop off the next ledge to 9 and 10.
Anyway, if you were not there you should be saying, "OH DARN" to yourself.
Philip Weaver Triple D Racing
I had a BALL at Track Day. Tuesday I got a ride in the other Red Italian car, a 430, for about 10 or 12 laps. I couldn't count as I was grinning too much. On Wednesday it was time to see how fast we were going. I got space and tried the lines and improved my time as the day went on. I love my car, my mechanical help Karen, the track, the wine and the weather. I didn't care if it was hot, I was having FUN. OK, here is a picture of me coming down the back side, or the "S"es. A fast part in 3rd and then 4th gear as you drop off the next ledge to 9 and 10.
Anyway, if you were not there you should be saying, "OH DARN" to yourself.
Philip Weaver Triple D Racing
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Thanks to Brian Shorey and all the others who organized and managed the track events... HOD instruction was excellent, and the time trials were the most fun I've had in an Alfa in a long time. The autocross was also quite satisfying, due to a well-laid out course. Hopping back and forth between autocrossing and time trials great fun and very efficient - thanks to the institution of an "express lane" for time-trialers!
I have some photos of the convention to share in a bit; for now, a photo of my car at the track. I managed 4 out of 5 sessions in the time-trials. After the fourth, my front roll bar popped out of the L-link due to an old bushing that disintegrated after two days of hard driving.
I have some photos of the convention to share in a bit; for now, a photo of my car at the track. I managed 4 out of 5 sessions in the time-trials. After the fourth, my front roll bar popped out of the L-link due to an old bushing that disintegrated after two days of hard driving.
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Here's a link to some photos of Monday at the Convention hotel, and Tuesday at the track.
https://plus.google.com/photos/1128...s/5898468207206170257?authkey=CIS49LbY2czUgQE
https://plus.google.com/photos/1128...s/5898468207206170257?authkey=CIS49LbY2czUgQE
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I only managed to get in a day and a half at the convention. I had a lot of fun judging the open 750 cars, with Chris Bole and Bob Kleinfeld. The convention was very well organized, though it is a shame that contemporary Alfas aren't a presence in the USA. I am sorry that I didn't have a chance to meet all of you with whom I have corresponded in the past year. I am planning to attend the vintage events in Monterey in August, and I would like to hear from anyone in this community who has an interest in meeting then. - Tom
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