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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello!
I was on here a couple weeks ago and I was having starting issues. I have since found multiple vacuum leaks and took care of those. But, I am still having the Cold start problems. When cold, if I crank it it fires immediately but will not remain running. Maybe runs for a second. Then, it will crank for 5 to 7 seconds before it starts. Once running, it is beautiful. I took another look at my fuel relays behind the passenger's seat and I noticed the plug on the big relay looked suspicious. Oh, I get constant pumps running with key on. They do not shut off after a second or so as they are supposed to do. Here are some pics of this plug. There are 7 contacts, on the relay but only six of my wires are accessible. It looks as if someone connected 2 together into one. Any input would be much appreciated! Thanks!
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'82 Spider Veloce 2.0L
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Can't help on the relay/fuel pump run-on question, but my '82 was showing the same starting symptoms recently and it turned out to be a bad crank position sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks! I have been leaning that direction. Was also thinking temp sensor or cold start. Haven't had a chance to test any yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My Fuel Pumps run continuously with key in the on position even with pump relays unplugged. Where can I find a wiring schematic for the 1986 Spider? Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I just looked at my drive relay plug again and there is a white wire with a red trace not hooked up!! And, I also have two orange and black wires both running into the #87 plug. They are taped and shrink wrapped together. I wish I knew exactly what wires should be where. I think more than one on this plug are in the wrong spot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Soooooo, after finding this unhooked wire by the fuel pump relays I was able to find it in the engine bay, and it is unhooked there also. It is a white wire with a red stripe. I cannot tell from this beautiful diagram which wire this would be. I am pretty sure that Alfa Romeo didn't just put wires in a harness for no reason. Dunno
 

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The earlier models had an Inertia Shut Off Switch to cut power to the fuel pump(s) in the event of a crash. These proved problematic and the proper operation of the drive relay would cut power if the engine stalled so the shut off switch was deemed redundant and eliminated in later models (~ 1985ish?). But it appears Alfa did not change the wire harness - they just connected the two wires that used to go to the switch together and buried the connection in the harness. The switch was originally located on the firewall just to the right of the hood latch. I'm not sure where they buried the connected wires but I suspect it was somewhere along the firewall. Oh, the wires to the inertia switch were pink with a white stripe. I'm not sure what the white with a red stripe is for...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The earlier models had an Inertia Shut Off Switch to cut power to the fuel pump(s) in the event of a crash. These proved problematic and the proper operation of the drive relay would cut power if the engine stalled so the shut off switch was deemed redundant and eliminated in later models (~ 1985ish?). But it appears Alfa did not change the wire harness - they just connected the two wires that used to go to the switch together and buried the connection in the harness. The switch was originally located on the firewall just to the right of the hood latch. I'm not sure where they buried the connected wires but I suspect it was somewhere along the firewall. Oh, the wires to the inertia switch were pink with a white stripe. I'm not sure what the white with a red stripe is for...
Thanks for your input ghnl. There is no switch on this one. Must have just missed the cut. MFG date is 7/85. According to an old post by Tifosi, he said the white with a red stripe and an orange with a black stripe both connect to the #30 pin on the drive relay. This does not jibe with Papajam's schematics that says pin 30 is the solid red wire that runs to the positive side of the battery. This actually makes more sense, but I don't know. Just a little frustrated.
 

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doesn't help much, but just for info, the early MY inertia switch bypass was a black connector (G107) joining the original pink wire together
Motor vehicle Electrical wiring Automotive exterior Auto part Cable

I'd go by Papajam: pin #30 of those two relays gets straight power from battery+ (red wires):
the main relay (small one) is unfused, the big drive/fuel relay has the 8A fuse between battery+ and pin #30

but you have that, right? (so it seems from the photo you posted)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I agree with you on pin 30. ghnl said that they didn't change the harness and just buried the wire for the inertia switch on the later models. I don't even have a pink wire in my harness. My biggest concern is it looks like the PO oh went ahead and joined these 2 Orange with the black striped wires together because they are not done professionally as Alfa would have done. Pic
Electrical wiring Gas Cable Wire Technology

This looks more than suspicious. I don't know what is going here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, I do have the 8 Amp inline fuse. So these two orange and black wires disappear into the harness and come out in the engine bay. But, only one is visible. It connects here.
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I have no idea where the other is. Someone really screwed this car up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I wonder if this would give me my constant pump run with the key in the on position?
 

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1988 Spider Quadrifoglio
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Study the wiring diagram and put everything back to where it should be.

If the drive relay isn't working properly, you can order a new one off eBay that works perfectly:


Shipping is a bit slow, but you can jumper pins on the relay socket for diagnostic purposes in the meantime. Don't drive the car with constantly running fuel pumps. If you have an accident and rupture a fuel line...
 

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So these two orange and black wires disappear into the harness and come out in the engine bay. But, only one is visible. It connects here.
I have no idea where the other is. Someone really screwed this car up.
the other is to the oxygen sensor (basically what you have as orange/black, is yellow/black on Papajams diagram.
And yes both "yellow"/blacks connect to pin #87 of fuel relay

now where is this red/white going to, that I marked here......?
Electrical wiring Cable Gas Electrical supply Wire
I would have thought it would also join the 2 yellow/blacks at pin #87.......that is, acc. to the diagrams, the fuel pump feed wire.
(and the reason why when you jumper pins #30 (live +) and #87 (pumps) of the fuel relay, the pumps run continuously (for testing purposes)

Maybe a PO just bypassed the relay, and hotwired that red/white direct to a keyed power source and that is why the pumps run with KO whether you pull the relays or not!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Study the wiring diagram and put everything back to where it should be.

If the drive relay isn't working properly, you can order a new one off eBay that works perfectly:


Shipping is a bit slow, but you can jumper pins on the relay socket for diagnostic purposes in the meantime. Don't drive the car with constantly running fuel pumps. If you have an accident and rupture a fuel line...
the other is to the oxygen sensor (basically what you have as orange/black, is yellow/black on Papajams diagram.
And yes both "yellow"/blacks connect to pin #87 of fuel relay

now where is this red/white going to, that I marked here......?
View attachment 1697000
I would have thought it would also join the 2 yellow/blacks at pin #87.......that is, acc. to the diagrams, the fuel pump feed wire.
(and the reason why when you jumper pins #30 (live +) and #87 (pumps) of the fuel relay, the pumps run continuously (for testing purposes)

Maybe a PO just bypassed the relay, and hotwired that red/white direct to a keyed power source and that is why the pumps run with KO whether you pull the relays or not!
Thanks for your response! As far as the pumps. Must be a direct wiring job somewhere. As far as the red wire, it is not connected to anything on either end.
 

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As far as the pumps. Must be a direct wiring job somewhere. As far as the red wire, it is not connected to anything on either end.
agree....that is obviously what has been done
(basically the PO effed it up!)

your fuel relay wiring looks otherwise correct, comparing photo of yours and another on BB
just the red/white has been snipped (and that is why the non alfa looking tape job on those two orange/black wires.......all three would have been connected to the one spade)
so that the power to pumps no longer runs thru the relay, as it should.
Green Finger Gadget Thumb Pliers

I'd try find what that (D)PO has done and then return it to how it was meant to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Agreed. Something is confusing me though. When I turn the key on the drive relay clicks. I can feel it. Just really confused. The wires on the main pump uner the car are black and yellow. I don't even see where a yellow comes from except there us one coming out of the ECM. I will comb through everything and try to decipher the puzzle. Oh, the end of the white and red in the engine bay is a mystery too. Can't see anything that looks like the pic. I have no favorable things to say about the previous owners.
 
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