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Hello,

Can anyone tell me the procedure to follow to change the clutch master cylinder for an Alfa 164 S 1991?
I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks you!
Erick
 

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Some one put a 164 cd rom online, if it is still there it will tell you how. I know the clutch is a big job, the parts are cheap so if you are doing one bit you may as well do the lot if you have to take it all apart anyway, but you might not have to. When mine was done there were a number of other things that were done as well as they should be done at the same time.

Sorry I am not much help, hope you find the manual (workshop cd)
 

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If no one else has done it by this p.m., I'll write up what I did for my daughter's M.C. R&R. It's the same for S/L/Base, and only requires some uncomfortable contortions. Nothing permanently disfiguring, and probably only a few unusual words will pop out.
 

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Here it goes, largely from memory. See note on removing the pin from the clutch pedal below (ALL CAPS). I think the manual says to remove the knee bolster. I think this is the fold-down cover for the fuse box, etc, under the dash there. Don't skimp on this, as (as I recall) it gives you welcome additional working room. But _maybe_ you can leave it in place. Be sure to get enough working light. Pages 12-4 and 12-5 of the manual.

First, drain the fluid from the combination clutch/brake reservoir. You won't be able to get everything out, and you'll have a couple of ounces to sop up with paper towels or shop rags from the footwell, so be ready. You won't want to just let it dribble onto the carpet.

There is a black plastic cover over the clutch master cylinder (attached to the clutch pedal in the driver's footwell; the manual calls the slave cylinder on the transmission a "master cylinder" and it calls the real deal the clutch pump). Remove the cover.

The master cylinder piston is driven toward the driver by the lever arrangement with the clutch pedal. The business end of the cylinder, where the fluid flows out, is therefore pointing toward the driver. This is where the metal output line is connected. Disconnect this metal line from the cylinder and catch any fluid dripping out.

Disconnect the rubber supply line which runs from the engine compartment reservoir through the false and real firewalls to a plastic barb on the body of the master cylinder. More leakage to sop up.

Undo the cotter key and pin attaching the clutch pedal to the primary shaft driving the master cylinder. THIS MAY NEED TO BE DONE EARLIER. I just can't remember. As I recall, and it isn't clearly, I had to remove the clutch pedal to enable clear access to the mounting stud nuts. It isn't a pleasure, and it will be tempting to cut corners, but as I recall, you simply have to remove some things, like the pedal, to get at others. It's just a job. I told myself I'd remember the order of events, but I've forgotten (hopefully only until the next time I have to crawl under the footwell for this task).

Then undo the two nuts holding the master cylinder to the mounting studs.

"Installation is the reverse of disassembly." Plus filling and flushing the reservoir and cylinders. Some strongly recommend pre-emptively filling the new M.C. with fluid. I can't say not to, but don't let it leak onto your carpet.
 

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  • Space is at a premium under there, so your hands may suffer from contact with the brackets in the area.
  • I removed my driver's seat, in deference to my back and this turned out to be a good idea.
  • When re-installing the pivot pin between the pedal and the MC, run some fishing line (monofiliment) through the cotter pin hole and feed it through the MC and pedal holes. Then pull the ends of the line and the pivot pin will slide into place. Again, installing the pivot pin is hindered by the lack of working room.
  • Go ahead and replace the brake fluid supply line with new hose while you can.
  • A kitchen baster does a dandy job removing the excess fluid from the reservoir.
 

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more info

John is right that re-installing the pin connecting the pedal and the master cylinder yoke is a royal pain due to tight access.

This may be a pointless suggestion, but I'll try it anyway. Here and now, without benefit of recently doing the job, you might examine _whether_ leaving the pedal pivot bolt out (pedal loose and hanging) would help in reconnecting the M.C. to the pedal. It is _possible_ that inserting the final pin would become trivial, and that the pedal pivot bolt would still be easy to replace because you hold the huge mechanical advantage of having the pedal itself to grab. Just musings and after-thoughts, which might not be useful. I hope these pics are useful to you from the manual. I hope it's OK to post them, too.
 

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When I replaced my MC I removed the damper and used the Motive power bleeder to bleed the air out of the system. One thing that I wished I had done is vacuumed the carpet before I started working. The contortions required to replace the MC meant that I was picking sand and gravel out of my hair, elbows, ect.

Thomas
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've replaced the clutch master cylinder. Can anyone tell me how to bleed the system and which tool to use??

Thanks! I'd really appreciate it..
 

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I've always done it the way I bleed brakes: have someone in the driver's seat press the pedal while I loosen the bleed screw on the slave cylinder (at the bell housing). Then close the bleed screw and pull the clutch pedal back up. Yes, with the 164 clutch, you may have to manually pull the pedal back up. As I recall, there is not a positive return unless the clutch pressure plate is pushing back to get over a dead spot in the mechanism. You do need to watch the fluid reservoir level, just as for bleeding brakes.

If you have a pressure bleeder, it should work just fine hooked to the slave cylinder and pushing fluid back into the system. The fluid will find its way into the reservoir, and you only need to keep from overfilling and spilling brake fluid onto everything.

Michael
 

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Incidentally, if anyone finds this thread in the future and has a right-hand-drive 164, don't be put off. The job is much easier with RHD because the master cylinder is on the bulkhead (firewall), about halfway down the clutch pedal. I included pictures for RHD in my thread.

On my 164, master cylinder piston 'stuck' in (did not come out when pedal raised) so a sharp squeeze of the slave cylinder was required (as I posted on the other thread).

-Alex
 

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i working on my clutch and I can't get it back in to gear Changed the fluid and bleed the air but it seems that the slave component does't give me an open to shift did I mess a step ?
 

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i working on my clutch and I can't get it back in to gear Changed the fluid and bleed the air but it seems that the slave component does't give me an open to shift did I mess a step ?
What did you replace? What year/model 164 do you have? It is very hard to bleed all the air our of a 164 clutch hydraulic system. It is helpful to have a motive flow type pressure bleeder tank that you can attach to brake reservoir threaded top to force all the air out of system.
 

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i working on my clutch and I can't get it back in to gear Changed the fluid and bleed the air but it seems that the slave component does't give me an open to shift did I mess a step ?
When bleeding my 'slave component', the one on the bell housing, I followed directions in another thread.

They suggested removing the slave cylinder (by removing the large circlip) and placing a clamp over the cylinder from end to end so that the piston and rod can not move. Place the slave cylinder (and clamp) with the bleed nipple vertical and up as high as you can get it. It may help to use a Mighty-Vac on the bleed nipple to suck brake fluid into the cylinder. Next, bleed the slave by having an assistant step on the clutch pedal while you open and close the bleed nipple at the bottom of each stroke. It'll take a while but eventually all the air will come out of the system -if all the seals are good. If you are doing this job by yourself, it would be helpful to find a Speed Bleeder or Quick Bleeder (bleed nipple with a one way check valve). Unfortunately I have not done this on the slave cylinder yet, so can not recommend the correct part number but I have used them on several other applications with success.

Mark
 
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