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Thank you very much John.
I have all your listings and I'm thankfull for the knowledge, you share.
Unfortunately, I have nothing to offer, apart of a deep interest, to learn about Alfa Romeo and which Car still, or again exists. I'm looking everywhere in the Net, to find chassisnumbers and to ordenate my personal Registry.
All Alfas in Chile came second Hand from Peru and most are sold again to Europe by Constantin A, who is in your listing. There are only 3 6C 2500 left, one RM and an 6C 1750 Normale Block. Nothing else. #815.025 is a three Carb. conversion, with a special Cylinder Head, a very fast car.

Regards
Jörg
 

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Alfa Romeo in Chile

Hello Jörg,

Thank you. From your brief note, it would seem that you know a few things that I do not. This is not surprising as I have very few notes about cars that have spent time in Chile.

Unfortunately, I cannot trust a lot of the material that is easy to find on the internet because I have found so much that is clearly incorrect. However, it is an interesting means by which we can become a bit more familiar with certain generalities if one is willing to look around a lot and, at the same time, be skeptical about specific claims that are often repeated very easily in many places but are nevertheless not necessarily true ... or clearly not true.

I currently have three chassis numbers listed for 6C2500 that are acknowledged to have spent time in Chile. 915535, 918023 and 918089. Only one seems to be there today so far as I know, so if you know of three that are still there, this would be nice to document with additional information about each of them. Are you certain that each of these came to Chile from Peru? I do not know of any 6C1750 engine block that is in Chile so if you can identify it, this would be helpful to this particular study. Nor do I know of an "RM" ... although I think there may have been an RL that went to Europe or the UK from an owner who has claimed to be Chilean while entering some historic Mille Miglia events in the past?

Having looked over the restored chassis "815025" at Pebble, I can say that the engine block fitted currently by the restorer seems to have a cylinder head fitted that is fairly "normal" and it has a two-carb "MM" (or "Pescara") configuration at the moment. A photo is included here. The engine fitted reportedly did not come with the car to the restorer. Did this car also come from Chile (and/or Peru?) at some point previously? Details please!

Thanks again,

John
 

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Hello John,
all Alfas, which you mention were found in the 80th in Vina del Mar. The Guy who found them, Constantin and the ex Alfa Importeur told me, that these Cars came from Peru. Constantin bought #915.535 an Alloy bodied PF Cabriolet and #918089 a Touring Lungo, both with 3 Carbs. He restored them an when he couldn't sell them in Chile, he sent them to his friend Louwman and the cars were auctioned by Bonhams. There was allthough an Alfa 6C 1750 DOHC Spider in running condition in Vina del Mar, which he bought for 25000 USD and this car was sold at the beginnings of the 90th in London, by Louwman, for 180.000 USD.
Constantins Cousin, Martin Kormis bought one steel bodied 6C 2500 Lungo, 3 Carbs PF Cabriolet, with disc Wheels, in Vina del Mar and a Freccia d'Oro in Santiago, which were raced in the 50th in Turismo Carretera Races in Rancagua by the Fernandez Brothers. He bought Parts of an RM in Santiago and got some Spareparts from Temuco. Unfortunatly, Martin don't show up his cars and I lost contact to Constantin, years ago.
#918023 ended up in a farm in Santa Cruz and the owner wanted 15 years ago 150000 USD. Last I heard, Jorge Macan bought this car. It's a 3 Carb. Version.
The italian Colony had Alfa RL and RLSS Fire Trucks. There were several in Chile. I lost a lot of money, searching for parts and all the guys, who are working in this kind of business, are crooks.
Constantin sold the 6C 1750 Normale Engineblock to Louwman.
Colin C. told me, that he bought a Monza here in Chile.

I drove against 815025 in the argentinian MM in 1997. This car was faster then my race prepped Jaguar XK140. I couldn't believe this. The Mecanic told me, that this was an Special prepared race car. The Engine had written on the Cyl. head a name, but I forgot it. I clearly saw the 3 Carb., but wasn't interested at that time in pre-war cars. The owner lived in Buenos Aires and I have somewhere the telefonnumber of the mecanic. Chris Bertschi should know him. I was told that this car came directly from Italy, to race in Argentine.

Regards
Jörg
 

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Thanks Dim,

Found GB Number Plates EAS 751, SV 5707 and UV 3343. These Cars are not in Johns List.:confused:
 

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Hi Ruedi,
I can offer two
Thank you, Odin.

You offered our pictures posted in the Portuguese Classicosonline.net in the thread:
Viagem a Itália de Alfa Romeo, para a comemoração do centenário.

No problem.

Pedro Ferreira e joão Ferreira
 

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Thank you, Odin.

You offered our pictures posted in the Portuguese Classicosonline.net in the thread:
Viagem a Itália de Alfa Romeo, para a comemoração do centenário.

No problem.

Pedro Ferreira e joão Ferreira
Small world:D

Do you have some bigger ones for Ruedi?

Regards
Jörg
Pedro was kind enough to e-mail me some high resolution pictures. One of the shows clearly that this Figoni-bodied car also has an Alfa Paris badge -- one of the things I was interested in finding out (see attachment below).

The thread Pedro is referring to can be found here. It is certainly worth checking out (it's quite spectacular) as there are pictures of quite a few 6C 1750s as well many other cars (and also a great road trip).

Pedro and Jörg, thank you both very much for your direct replies to me off and on the BB and for kindly sharing these pictures!
 

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Ar 6c 1750

Hi,

There was an Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 in Portugal, raced by the brothers Sameiro in 1931/32.
I show two photos of that car in a race at Lisbon – 1º circuit of Campo Grande, 28 of June 1931.

The second photo is in a Portuguese library at Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian. You can see it in Corrida de automóveis, Portugal | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I don’t have any other information about the car.
 

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Changes to earlier postings

I have heard from the owner of 0312953 who informs me that his car is indeed a 1750cc car and the original engine is still fitted. This is not surprising but is nice to confirm. I have made a minor addition/change to posting #19 as a result and the master listing used to generate the overview document has been modified to reflect this information. I will revise the shared document (from 2008) later and replace the old version and let you know when this happens. That work involves the use of another computer and this is not here with me now.

Posting #10 has had its attachment removed as I realized it was redundant, as the same document appeared as an attachment in posting #19 .... now moved to posting #99 below.

John
 

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New listing highlighting info collected for early Alfa Romeo 6C

Ciao appassionati delle Alfa Romeo 6C!

Edit 17 August 2011: It seems that too many folks have been interpreting and using the "Highlights" listing incorrectly. I am removing it for now but will repost it later in a revised format that will hopefully serve as a reminder that some data should not be read too literally as being indicative of specific histories or even "Tipo" designation. As an example the term "SSC" might be thought of as referring correctly to an engine that is installed in a chassis that does not have to be thought of as "SSC".

Here is a newly revised listing for first, second and third series Alfa Romeo 6C1500 and 6C1750 cars. Not all of these cars are known to exist today. In fact, many do not. But, there is something to be learned from collecting all that we can and looking at the data together. This listing is intended to be informative but it is also a plea for additional information and context to help make sense of the information already collected.

Additional introductory information and context can be found in postings #10 and #19.

As always, I am willing (and wishing!) to exchange information with any owner of one of these cars. To that end, I remind you (one and all) that there is a data form that is available to help describe each car individually. Two versions are attached here, one for the solid axle cars and one for the independently sprung cars.

If you look about on this forum (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limited-production-1910-1949/161309-alfa-romeo-6c2300-6c2300a-6c2300b.html), you can find a similar listing that highlights what has been collected about the "seventh series" Alfa Romeo 6C, better known as "6C2300" or "6C2300A" (in restrospect). That listing also covers the 6C2300B even though that was considered to be a completely new variation from that of the "6C" that had come before.

If you would like to see similar or more detailed information about 4th, 5th and 6th series cars, you must correspond directly with me at the Italian Car Registry. Those listings are highly complex as many of the cars listed have had extremely complex histories, many of which are not fully described. This is also where the bulk of the "claimed" chassis numbers appear for chassis and engines that are different than they seem. The descriptions of those cars are particularly volatile and subject to change. That said, there are probably some "volatile" cars in the listing shared here and some may not yet be marked to reflect that nature. Some general caution is warranted no matter how "good" or "comfortable" everything seems to be. It happens with some frequency that some very fine histories and supporting paperwork become associated with cars that are not truly representative of the originals.

One tidbit of information may be all that it will take to inspire me to prepare a listing for you on any of these cars? Of course, I will probably ask for additional information once I know which questions to ask!

I should stress that this information is collected from a variety of sources. If I do not know better, I often include claims made by owners or former owners. This can result in incorrect labelling of Tipo designations, body style & builders and more. This listing should be used only as a guide but not as substantiation of any sort!

I should also mention that all of the 6C listings are in a constant state of revision and growth, whether or not anyone here makes a contribution. If it seems that this posting generates some added input over and above what is going on in my general studies, then I will continue to make an effort to share here on the AlfaBB. If I do not have the impression that anyone here is inclined to share, I will focus my attentions elsewhere and this listing will either remain static or will be removed. Those of you who wish to have this data for the future might be well-advised to right-click and "save" now, just in case this listing disappears one day?

I also remind one and all that additional information is available to those who share information about their own cars.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Allegati:
Una scheda da compilare per ogni vettura Alfa Romeo 6C dalla "RL" sino alla 6C2300.
Poi una scheda per le 6C2300B e le 6C2500.

Per ciascuno chi risponde con un po d'informazione, sono in grado di inviare un elenco piu' dettagliato com'e un ringraziamento e per spingere di nuovo lo studio di queste vetture magnifiche.
 

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Alfa Romeo 6C1750 N. 0312961

A former long-term owner of this very special car has expressed a desire to share some information with the new owner. For those who don't know, 6C0312961 was first registered September 1929 to Alberico Bossi in Milano. The body was a sporting two-seater by a coachbuilder that is yet to be identified. The car was sold April 1930 to Raffaele Cecchini in Rome and he raced it at least twice, probably more. The car was traded back to Alfa Romeo, probably as part of a deal in which Cecchini purchased a new 8C2300. The car then passed to Giuseppe Campari for a short time, perhaps in his capacity as a dealer or perhaps as a bit of pay for services rendered. Then it went in July of 1932 to Cesare Scaffone in Milano for almost two years before it was sold to Augusto Guaschino of Aosta. A delightful photo appears in Simon Moore's excellent three-volume book describing the 8C2300 series. The body appears to be very similar to Zagato's offerings of 1929/1930 but not all features are typical.

By June of 1943, the car was registered to Abramo Gualtiero (or Gualtieri?) in Decamere, Eritrea. This area had become occupied by Italian forces in 1935, became an Italian territory a short time later and it was then treated as an Italian province where cars were registered and taxed just as they were in Italy. The 1943 registration was done in time to sell the car to Luigi Masara. The implication is that Abramo was either a dealer or had perhaps owned the car for some time without registering it. In January of 1944, the car passed to Lino Ongaro in partnership with Annibale Barbisotti, still in Decamere. In September of 1945, the car passed to Fulvio Franciosi of Asmara. Franciosi raced in a number of cars from 1939 to 1952 or so but nothing is yet known of his use of this car. By June of 1946, 0312961 was sold to Caterina Carbone (married to someone named named Magno) in Asmara. In March of 1947, the car was registered to Captain Arnold Maurice Putsman (Putschman?) and then again in May of 1947 to Captain Hobley, a British military officer. Hobley took the car 1950 (or perhaps slightly earlier?) to England and registered it there with the plate "KYR564".

There is an interesting note from 1950 that refers to "Finance Act 1948, Section 12: This vehicle has been imported under a revenue concession on condition that it will not be sold or otherwise disposed of by the importer before 13 Feb 1952."

The car was sold 17 April 1952 and then again 25 March 1957 before it was sold to Art Wennerstrom who owned it from 1959 until 2009 (50 years!) taking the car to Switzerland and then Ohio and then Nevada. It was sold August 2009 to Nick Benwell and then ... ???

Art Wennerstrom would like to share more with the current owner. PM me and I will put you in touch.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
 
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