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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just bought an Aluminum radiator from Jason for the 164 Q4 what is the best antifreeze to use. I was just wondering what people are using out there in those Cold states? Note I refuse to use the orange colored stuff!


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<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator004.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator003.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator002.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator001.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
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Does this have the bracket for the oil cooler?
I use Prestone with distilled water, 50-50 and add some Redline Water Wetter to help. This is what is in my 94Q that I just changed out.
 

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I'll give you the dubious benefit of my thoughts and conclusions: use 70% glycol and 30% water (or whatever the max labeled mix for your product). The reason: this is a lower vapor pressure mix. With a water-rich mix you are more likely to strain the heater core endcaps with pressure cycles from hot to cold than you are to benefit from the extra heat capacity.

After I realized that the plastic heater core tanks (and in my case, the plastic end tanks on the radiator) are life limited by pressure cycling and fatigue cracks, I also realized that reducing the tank pressure by using a higher glycol fraction would reduce my likelihood of ending up with coolant leaks into my front footwells after heater core failure.

This is the extent of my thought on the subject. I'm using less water now, and enjoying it more.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll give you the dubious benefit of my thoughts and conclusions: use 70% glycol and 30% water (or whatever the max labeled mix for your product). The reason: this is a lower vapor pressure mix. With a water-rich mix you are more likely to strain the heater core endcaps with pressure cycles from hot to cold than you are to benefit from the extra heat capacity.

After I realized that the plastic heater core tanks (and in my case, the plastic end tanks on the radiator) are life limited by pressure cycling and fatigue cracks, I also realized that reducing the tank pressure by using a higher glycol fraction would reduce my likelihood of ending up with coolant leaks into my front footwells after heater core failure.

This is the extent of my thought on the subject. I'm using less water now, and enjoying it more.

Michael

Mike in English please?:confused:
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Glycol boils at a higher temperature than water. A 70-30 glycol-water mixture in a sealed container with air space will produce a lower pressure than a 50-50 glycol-water mixture. Michael is theorizing that this lower pressure (and the smaller pressure difference cycling over and over from cold to hot) will protect the plastic heater core over its lifetime. If I'm doing my math right, the reduction in pressure going from 50-50 to 70-30 is about 3 psi at 212 F.

Personally I'd be nervous about running too much glycol as it's going to make your engine run hotter due to lower heat capacity and worse heat transfer from the engine and to the radiator. 3 psi also doesn't seem like enough to make a significant difference. But I've never tried it, nor do I have experience with the 164 cooling system so I'm probably just talking out my rear.
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Personally I'd be nervous about running too much glycol as it's going to make your engine run hotter due to lower heat capacity and worse heat transfer from the engine and to the radiator.
And now that I think about it, therein lies another problem. If you run hotter the pressure will go up. At +20F you're only saving 1 psi, which is pretty insignificant.

I think you may have overanalyzed this one, Michael. But like I said, I've never had to replace a 164 heater core so maybe with that car you take what you can get.
 

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Quite likely I'm guilty, as charged. I picked a direction which had the right slope (lowering the pressure) but didn't really look up the actual gain to behad. Still, having lost a nice set of shoes to glycol dissolving the glue joints inside the shoes, and having to replace the heater core in another 164, I'm a little sensitive to broken heater cores. Not to mention having the plastic end tanks on two or three radiators fail.

Inside the engine, I believe the temps do go to over 212F. I can't find a temp vs. concentration vs. pressure table just now, so I can't really participate in the quantitative part of the discussion. I would mention that my thinking did not include at least one aspect: the engine internal surfaces go to higher than the thermostat temperature. The coolant flow and heat capacity (and viscosity) affect how much higher the internal temps go. The pressure in the system is probably governed by the vapor pressure at the hottest internal engine surface (this is why mechanical oil/water temperature gauges work). So the idealized gain of going to 70% glycol could be reduced even further by increases in local hot surface temperature. I stand corrected. I'll probably still use somewhere between 50% and 70% glycol, as I don't like replacing radiators and I really don't like replacing heater cores.

And I'll be looking for those temperature tables.... They're probably on the antifreeze bottle. I couldn't find them online.

Michael
 

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60/40 then. 50/50 is best IMO.

Not really sure there is a best one out there as they all use Glycol.
I use Pentosin (German) Antifreeze same used on VW/AUDI. It is pink in color, but they are all basically the same. DEXCOOL is my next choice. The part numbers are Pentosin G012A8D and VW: ZVw 237 G12. or Purple Anti freeze G 012 A8F G12+


50/50 at least, no more than 60/40. With this radiator 50/50 is good enough. No need to worry about heating issues anymore. ;)
Anti-freeze: water
1:1: -36.4˚F -228˚F
2:3: -14.5˚F -221˚F
1:2: -3.1˚F -219˚F


So as Alfa and most recommend is 50/50 for best cooling, corrosion protection and freezing.

Yes it does have a oil cooler mount:
OEM:


Aluminum:


Jason
 

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Jason,

What is your price for those aluminium radiators?
With the low dollar right now and a lot of 164 enthousiasts overhere there might be a few who would like to have one.

Arjen

164 TD
164 Q4
 

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Jason,

What is your price for those aluminium radiators?
With the low dollar right now and a lot of 164 enthousiasts overhere there might be a few who would like to have one.

Arjen

164 TD
164 Q4
$599.00 (~405,00 Euro) But for countries using the EURO tack on another $100 USD..LOL!! :p

I have them for Milano/GTV6 and 164 all.

Thanks Arjen

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok I got the radiator out but I need an ac condenser now.:mad: Are all 164 condensers the same?
 

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Yes they are all the same. Thats the problem, Alfa did't upgrade the condeser when they went from R12 to R134 and the compressor cuts out a bit early. I replaced mine a couple years ago but i still don't get the ice winds i want. I think the best opition i to get one in aluminium from Jason.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well its all done now. Heres a few pics,

<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator006.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
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<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator007.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
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<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator008.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator009.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/LB164Q/radiator010.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
 

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I can certainly vouch for both of Jason's products...the radiator and the condenser. I just got back from an LA to SF round trip in my '91 164S. I had my A/C system upgraded at the same time I found a crack in the radiator. I put in both components and the car has been running nice and cool, even up the steep grades on the Grapevine between the Central Valley and Valencia/Stevenson Ranch area (the LA side and a 0 to 4400 foot climb very quickly).

Granted, it was only 75 degrees, but I was frozen out by the A/C....had to turn it up to 72 degrees to keep the goose bumps away.

For the condenser, I think my mechanic had to cut a bit into the headlight plastic mounts (nothing major and you don't notice it with the hood closed.).

Cheers,
Paul H.
'91 164 S 66K
 

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I like the purple Mercedes-Benz coolant i think it is pentosin, i have it in all my cars supose to help prevent corosion especialy in aluminum heads, not really much of a difference in price, my brothers diesel shop uses it in their fleet of trucks
 
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