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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
Wanted to see what people think of replacing
the Spica FI in my 71 1750 to the european
Weber set up.

Was it difficult, how much to do this? Where
did you buy your kit. Any technical advice?
Is it worth it?

Any comments/feedback welcome
 

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Is the Spica pump worn out on your car?
 

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Centerline sells the complete Weber conversion kit for $1290, but it would be a lot cheaper to have Wes Ingram (http://www.wesingram.com/) rebuild your Spica pump. Plus it would keep your US-spec car original.
 

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From what I've heard, is you can get more power out of the Spica then Webers, if tuned right.

I personally prefer Webers over the Spica. Others prefer the Spica and ask why the heck would you want Webers, because this FI works great.

I'm on the Weber side, I like the idea or Carbruetors.
 

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I think both Webers and Spica injection have their good points and can make good power! And there is no denying the sexiness of the intake honk you get from carbs and open filter elements.

I just don't think someone should make a decision to go to Webers without making sure their Spica is well tuned and healthy first. And if you need more power, Wes Ingram can build some killer modified Spica pumps, custom matched to your headwork and cams. My pump is built to 155 hp specs to go with the porting and Euro 2 liter cams and I'm pretty happy with it.

As far as absolute power - the factory GTAM 2-liter cars got 240 hp using a modified Spica pump and Lucas sliding throttle set-up.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The Spica pump is working. In the cars restoration
I would have it rebuilt by Wes, and I do need
a new thermostatic actuator. The one in there
has had the hose cut(bye bye core:mad: )

I think the pump rebuild will be $675, and
a new thermostatic actuator $200, new fuel
pump about $250 so total about $1125
I saw the Centerline kit for about $1300 for Webers.
So cost is about the same for both.

Here are some things I dont like about Spica:
I am afraid of not being able to get
parts for the Spica in the years to come.

I dont like the fact that I cannot work
on the Spica myself especially considering
the special tools you need.

I would like feedback from people that have
done the conversion. Especially related to
Weber drivability, maitanance, set up, etc.

Thanks
 

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I don't think parts for the SPICA will be a super big deal. I've bought a couple of old pumps very cheap off ebay, including one that was modified by Wes Ingram to 150hp standard. So as far as spare parts go, I've got spare microswitches (non-essential anyway), spare cold start solenoids, spare fuel cutoff solenoids, plus associated springs, etc. About the only thing that would really screw-the-pooch is to have the pistons start leaking into the oil. Then it's time for Wes Ingram's expertise.

If you can get a complete used Weber setup, get it as a standby, but wouldn't junk the SPICA system yet.

As far as the thermostatic actuator goes, here's a link for a home repair procedure that you might try before sinking $180 or so for a rebuilt one.

As for the fuel supply pump, use the one for the later Bosch injected Alfas. About $160 from Centerline. I bought a used one from a frequent seller (company) on ebay and got burned. Bad pump (output low of spec) and all they offered to do is sell me another one for $25. I told them they were "dream"(ing) "cars".


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Catenary/ta_diy.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Roadtrip,
Thanks for the reply. The repair link for the
TA is really good. My problem is that the previous
moron, I mean owner, snipped the tube of the TA
right at both connections:mad:
So I dont have any length of tube to solder to.

Your link would be a great item to archive here
on the site for other members to use.


Thanks again for the feedback.
 

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An alternative to a TA is a Shankle Sure Start which is/was available from Alfa Ricambi. This is basically a SPICA equivalent to a manual choke. I've had one on my 1750 Spider for over a dozen years.
 

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Centerline has a very good kit. It may not be the cheapest but this is a operation that is worth doing right the first time, IMHO.
 

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Spica to Webers

Hello,
I got the Weber set up from the guy on ebay in Italy (alfa1750). It was complete except for it needs the euro throttle pedal to make it right for the direct linkage. I have seen a few of the pedal assemblies on ebay but I made a bracket with a wheel for a cable so I could use the SPICA pedal assembly. Also with the euro intake manifold, it uses a very different bypass hose which I was able to get from AlfaRicambi in a day. I had to rebuild the carbs and play around with the jets but now the car runs good and have not had to adjust it since. I put a lower pressure electric fuel pump on it and a Holley fuel pressure regulator.

This is my first post on this list. Hope I helped a little.
Derek
Long Beach
 

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Hey Derek! Welcome aboard! It's good to see another GTV owner in the LBC! I've been wanting you to post about your carb purchase. You've gotta post some pics in the gallery too. Your '73 GTV's looking good with the hood serpent. Is she lowered too?

Btw, are you going to the AROSC rallye? (why the hell do they spell rally that way? are we in 'ol england?)
 

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Hey Kai,

I think you'll find the spelling of rally with an e on the end is a French peculiarity - doesn't shed any light on why a US event would use that spelling - but I didn't want you confusing the English with the French.........
 

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Yeah well you Britons have a funny way of spelling things, so I placed the blame accordingly. Ye Olde Smoke Shoppe, indeed. You may have invented the language, but we sure improved upon it.

<snicker, snicker>
 

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My .02 is that both Webers and Spica are both perfectly adequate for their intended use on Alfas. It's when engine mods come into play that I prefer Webers. Granted, a stock Spica pump can be adjusted to deliver a little more fuel but only up to a certain point. Then Wes gets the call. OTOH, you can richen the carbs with ten bux worth jets in ten minutes. And carbs have the advantage of different throat/choke diameters for increased airflow. BTW, does anyone know the ID of the Spica intake throats?

If you do decide to go with carbs, I would recommend all original parts and not the conversion kit because the kit uses hard mount adapters with the Spica manifold. These transfer both engine heat and vibration to the carbs. The original Alfa soft mounts are there to eliminate these problems. All the original stuff is on ebay on a fairly regular basis.

PS - One of my favourite pastimes is just opening the bonnet, leanin over the wing and adjusting Webers.
 

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Hey Jim:

What are you using to adjust your webers? I have a synchronizer, stethoscope, and a colortune kit. Do you recommend anything else? And have you utilized O2 sensor based air/fuel meters to track them?

John M
 

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Call me old school. The only tools I've used for many years (on dual carb setups) is a tool made by Snap-On - part # SSD4100 or something like that (aka a screwdriver) and my ears. An accurate tach is helpful but not mandatory.

Here's what I do after warming the engine.
1) adjust base idle speed with screw #3 (see attached pic)
2) turn in screw #1 (idle mixture) on cyl #1 until it's lightly seated and note the rpm drop (either by a tach or by sound)
3) turn the screw out counting the number of turns until the cylinder re-fires
4) do the same for the other three idle mixture screws

The goal here is to get the same rpm drop per PAIR of cylinders. If it isn't, the carb syncro screw (#2) needs tweaking. For example, if closing the front 2 mixture screws (one at a time) causes more of an rpm drop than when closing the rear screws, the front carb is doing more work.

5) turn screw #2 about a quarter turn in the direction of the weaker carb - in this case, counter-clockwise (or toward the rear carb)
6) repeat steps 1 - 5 until the rpm drop is equal for both carbs

Final mixture is simply a matter of lightly seating each mixture screw, slowly backing it out for max rpm and then turn it in about an 8th turn. If everything went well, all 4 mixture screws will be turned the same amount. With a little practice, it takes about 10 minutes.
This method is obviously not nearly as 'elegant' as with the tools you mention, but hey, when your on piecework and time is money.......
 

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Hey Jim:

Excellent explanation and thank you! I got baptised by fire on dual weber knock offs. I have been following the exact process you went through. Just my ear is not as good as yours. For the early years I just went via a stethoscope in the barrel after synchronizing. I got to see the colortune in action at a mechanic friend's shop who races alfas, so I made the plunge.

The old 'shankle sold weber knockoffs' (sk racing) caught me one time with a leaning cylinder. Don't know what was the issue as they were setup right, but nevertheless a hole in piston #1. Those shankle carbs were a mikuni based derivative of the weber. So, I am gun shy about running lean, but in the same breath I want as much out of my car as it will give.

I ditched the shankle sk racing knockoffs and got the new Weber 45 dcoe pair. And picked up a colortune kit to get the mixture as exact as possible.

The 2.0L engine is rebuilt with a p/p head with oversized valves in the I & E, performance cams, high rev springs, cut head, 10.4:1 pistons underneath, MSD multispark, headers, no cat or center muffler with just an ansa at the end.

My next question for you is what would you use with the above setup as far as jetting the carbs?

John M
 
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