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I'm sending a "celeste" '58 Spider Veloce to the body shop Monday and am in need of the correct color code.

I've seen two different shades of this color. One seems to be darker than the other. Is this because someone mixed it wrong, or because there are two different shades?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

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I contacted Elvira(I think she's retired) at Alfa Romeo when I first got my 61' Giulietta a couple of years ago.Their records show that my Alfas' original color was Sky Blue,#301.According to autocolorlibrary.com,which,for Alfa Romeo only goes back to 1965,shows a color chip for Celeste being# 301.I have in some notes that in the Veloce Register, Alfa Bulletin May 25,1965 shows Sky Blue # 20301 Ditzler#12953. Last month(5/07)I talked to Tower paint,gave them all of this information,and ordered a few rattle cans of 301.The color they sent me was almost white.I have seen some very light blue Alfas(not this light),but only in pictures,so what good is that? Let me say here that on a clear day in Atlanta,if you look straight up,that's very close(but not exact) to what color my car is,Sky Blue.So to solve this problem,I sent Tower their paint back along with my original glovebox lid.They matched the inside of the lid perfectly with Dupont Centari acrylic enamel and I like it.The code printed on the can is AR301,the color printed is Celest.Is it correct?Yes,for my glovebox lid.Are there two shades of Celeste? Probably more.Good luck & enjoy yourself,Phil DiGrazia
 

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The color Celeste did change over the years. On 750 series spiders it was a light blue with a slightly grey tint. I'm not sure exactly what was original on 101 series cars. You would probably be best to strip a body part down to the original color if possible, and have a good paint shop match it.
 

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AR-301 Celeste for Giuliettas (KF 13774) was also called Celeste P.F. and is available under Ditzler/PPG codes 13940 and ALF301.

In 1978, a AR-359 Celeste Chiaro was introduced with several variants: AR-359/45, AR-359/47, AR-359/4A, AR-359/98. The Ditzler/PPG code for the basic AR-359 is 15511.
 

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I have in some notes that in the Veloce Register, Alfa Bulletin May 25,1965 shows Sky Blue # 20301 Ditzler#12953.
The information I have for "Sky Blue" (Ditzler #12953) correlates to AR-322 (KF18657), not AR-301, and shows it for 1963-1968 cars.
 

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Tony,
For what is worth (and is not much, for sure) I checked the chip AR301 with my 57 spider and is very close.

Maurizio
'57 Giulietta Spider Veloce
 

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The right "sky-blue" color is the Italian sky above Salerno, at exactly 2:35 pm, on a clear day, at least 15 months from the last Vesuvian eruption, between the 15th and the 17th of August. Make no mistakes!
 

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Mauricio,
Could you please post a picture of your AR301 painted Spider? I would like to see that color on a car. The previous discussions on Celeste, Sky Blue, Tornado Blue, et al, has left me a bit confused ( not that unusual ).
Thank you, Sopp
 

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Thank you for posting the picture. That's a beautiful color on an equally beautiful car. If I can't figure out what the original color was on my Sprint, it will become Celeste. Judging by the color of some spots on my dash, mine would be a darker shade of blue than Celeste.

Can anyone make a positive ID of the shade of blue from my dash photo?????
Thank you, Sopp
 

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Anthony, I'm sure what I'm about to say, you're already well aware of. Most of these cars have been repainted at one time. However there are several places very few owners/painters don't remove. I'm restoring a '58 Spider for a client and there was a pristine (now primered over) area under the lip of the top of the dash once the dash 'header' has been removed. It looked like the day it was painted. Assuming your Spider was originally Celeste blue, I can't help but believe yours would be the same - unless some restorer long ago was very energetic and removed it when painting.

All should be aware that 'equivalent colors' on modern paints are, in my opinion, only in the general ball park of the original color. Awhile back I was matching a client's '69 Wheat colored Spider. I'd borrowed the paint shops swatches and the Alfa Wheat on the swatch matched areas on the '69 exactly. So told the paint matcher/mixer guy to match the swatch. When I picked up the paint he showed me his first try which was mixed using DuPont's formula for Wheat. It looked like an off white. Paint guy knew it of course and made it match the swatch and not just follow the suggested formula for the color.

The '58 Celeste blue is actually pretty intense...for a light blue.

Biba
 

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Archivo Historico

Sopp,
Contactiing the Alfa Romeo Archivio Historico with the information of your car (serial number and engine number) they will be able to tell you the original color of the car. I do not have at this moment the e-mail address for the Archivio, but I am sure somebody at the chat room knows. If not, I will look for it and post it later

Maurizio
57 Giulietta Spider Veloce
59 Lotus Type 14
 

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Anthony
In reply to your original question, there are too many years and too many changes in paint chemistry separating the original coating of these cars and the present day to rely on a number or name for identification. Confusion existed 50 years ago and it persists to this day.
My two cents worth of input: have some samples mixed and pick the one you like!;)

This pic of a 60’s Glasurit catalog may help identify the difference between the two light blues commonly misnamed as Celeste Blue.
 

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First, let me apologise to Anthony for stepping into his thread. I should have started a new thread with my question. Sorry 'bout that.

Maurizio,

I checked with [email protected] and they were not able to tell me what color it was originally. I'm hoping someone can tell by the "original" paint on the dash. The "Acqua di fonte" color chip that GTD posted looks rather close. Perhaps a bit darker than I had hoped for. Now if I could see a picture of a car painted that color, I might be able to tell if it is what I want.

Thanks, again, for posting the picture and thanks to GTD for posting the color chips.

Sopp
 

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FYI: This excerpt from the 8-page Alfa Romeo Tech. Bulletin #0.00.024, dated 10-Jul-1961, applicable to all models and titled "Touching up an recellulosing all finished cars cellulosed with synthetic products (synthetic enamels)," shows what colors were available on Giulietta Sprint and Spiders (including Veloces).

It indicates that a Giulietta Sprint could have never been Celeste blue (a color available on Spiders only) but would be Iseo blue or Tornado blue instead. Therefore, Sopp's Sprint is most likely AR-320 Azzurro Iseo (Iseo blue, Ditzler/PPG #32211 and ALF320), as the Italian name AR-319 Blu Notte (Tornado blue, Ditzler/PPG #ALF321) hints to a much darker color.

But caution: I don't know if this list applies only to cars exported to North America.
 

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I believe GTD is correct that my "original" (?) color was AR337, but, Blue chiaro is not on the list that Tubut posted. :confused:

The picture I've included is "supposed to be" Tornado Blue, which IS on Tubut's list. If the car pictured is truely Tornado Blue, I think I could be quite happy with that color. :p

It's probably just wishful thinking, but the Tornado Blue in the picture does look a bit like what is on my dash. :D

On another subject. The ALFA is getting pushed to the back burner again. My "friend" who was doing the body of my Austin Healey 100M was taking advantage of our friendship and putting the screws to me since I have not been able to be at his shop as frequently as I planned (health crap). Healey will have to be finnished first-------dammit! Oh well, red Healey, then Blue ALFA....................................
 

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