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From Wikipedia...although I'm not sure it is correct...

There was no requirement in Europe for headlamps of standardised size or shape. Automakers were free to design their lamps to whatever shapes and sizes they wished, as long as the lamps met the engineering and performance requirements contained in the applicable European safety standards. That design freedom permitted the development of rectangular headlamps, first used in 1961. Developed by Cibié for the Citroën Ami 6 and by Hella for the German Ford Taunus, they were prohibited in the United States where round lamps were required until 1975
 

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Maybe we are talking about a modified headlight. It very well could have been a round headlight with square glass over for styling and sculptured metal framing. Didn't the VW prototype/prewar come with covered headlights? They were round with oval shaped class.
 

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Yep, back to the topic.

The first square headlights were issued by Bosch in 1940 and found their way on the Auto Avio Costruzioni Tipo 815.
I do not think the headlights on the two Auto Avio 815s are square; it is only the covers over them that are....
I'm not sure about that...I know that Bosch' proposal then set a small fashion trend back in 1940 and the 815 was the first, or among the first to use them.
Well, I'm not certain, because the photos are of the car owned by Righini and aren't that old.
Just to clear up this ambiguity: the many period photos in the Franco Varisco 815 book [The Genesis of the Ferrari] all show round headlamps mounted behind clear creased front covers. At least one photo shows "both" the Rangoni and Ascari 815 cars with practically identical headlamps. This photo is of the two cars competing in the Brescia Grand Prix [MM] April 1940. But there are many more detailed photos of the two cars [especially the Rangoni car] in the book, including beautiful professional photos shot for Touring with particular known period backgrounds. Please: there can be no doubt about the headlights. Now back to Carlo's car...

--Carter
 

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Just to clear up this ambiguity: the many period photos in the Franco Varisco 815 book [The Genesis of the Ferrari] all show round headlamps mounted behind clear creased front covers. At least one photo shows "both" the Rangoni and Ascari 815 cars with practically identical headlamps. This photo is of the two cars competing in the Brescia Grand Prix [MM] April 1940. But there are many more detailed photos of the two cars [especially the Rangoni car] in the book, including beautiful professional photos shot for Touring with particular known period backgrounds. Please: there can be no doubt about the headlights. Now back to Carlo's car...

--Carter
OK. I guess I agree with GTV2000 that they are just rectangular covers with chrome trim over round lights...
 

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The car was built by a minor Milanese coachbuilder, maybe one named Meteor,
Indeed it is not easy to find any infos about this little and quite unknown company...
This morning it came into my mind where to search;)



And this is a Meteor bodied car....


Source: La Manovella Sept 2000

Interesting to see that this car has headlamps in the style of the Auto-Avio Construzioni 815, round ones hidden under a square opening in the fender.

I'm interested in your opinions....;)


Best regards
Ciao Carlo:cool:
 

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Indeed it is not easy to find any infos about this little and quite unknown company...
This morning it came into my mind where to search;)



And this is a Meteor bodied car....


Source: La Manovella Sept 2000

Interesting to see that this car has headlamps in the style of the Auto-Avio Construzioni 815, round ones hidden under a square opening in the fender.

I'm interested in your opinions....;)


Best regards
Ciao Carlo:cool:
A model in 1/43rd scale of that car, and of the almost identical spider is made by Lilliput models in Italy. I belive both are 1100cc FIAT based cars.

In the book "La Sport E I Suoi Artiginani 1937-1965, on page 336, there is a photo of a Tajana Fiat 750 with a Meteor body that is very similar to the body that you posted a photo of. Tajana was a constructor of FIAT based "specials", but only built a handfull of cars.

I don't think the 6c2500 is a Meteor body.
 

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Dagrada

There was a coachbuilding company called Meteor, but as far as I am aware, they only did FIATS, and mostly racing cars....and probably less than 10 cars total. I don't think the 6c2500 is by them. There are photos of the Pasquinelli/FIAT/Dagrada 750 bodied by Meteor on pages 133 and 134 of the book La Sport E I Suoi Artigiani 1937-1965 by Curami and Vergnano.....
I to all, anyone have any photos concerning DAGRADA 750?

Thanks

Antonio
 

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I to all, anyone have any photos concerning DAGRADA 750?

Thanks

Antonio
As I have mentioned, there are pictures in the book of a Dagrada 750 with Meteor coachwork on pages 133 and 134, but they are coprighted, so I do not want to scan and post them.

I would think Nada publishing owns the copyright or had written permission from the actual photographer to use them. I would contact them for photos.

There are pictures of 3 other Fiat Dagrada 750s on pages 134 and 135 of the book. Two look like a late Urania or an early Giannini with cycle fenders. One is similar, but has a different looking front. It seems all the 750 Dagradas used Siata components in the engine construction.
 

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Dagrada

As I have mentioned, there are pictures in the book of a Dagrada 750 with Meteor coachwork on pages 133 and 134, but they are coprighted, so I do not want to scan and post them.

I would think Nada publishing owns the copyright or had written permission from the actual photographer to use them. I would contact them for photos.

There are pictures of 3 other Fiat Dagrada 750s on pages 134 and 135 of the book. Two look like a late Urania or an early Giannini with cycle fenders. One is similar, but has a different looking front. It seems all the 750 Dagradas used Siata components in the engine construction.
Thanks I heve the book, I'm looking for other pictures of the cars.

Thanks
Antonio
 

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Dagrada? ... Oh, Studebaker ... Oh, Alfa Romeo

Hello all,

Thanks to Bjarke I have now noticed this thread, which seems to be wandering a bit?

It will take some time, but I am sure that the AR6C2500 mystery can be solved with some efforts. Patience may be required, however. The Loewy-concept rear window design was used by a few coachbuilders. One car was severely criticised by judges at a concours for being such a direct rip-off of the Studebaker. I will dig up the references when I can.

I suppose if someone were to open a Dagrada thread, and were I to be made aware of that, I might post a couple of photos.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
 

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Dagrada

Dear Antonio,

Generally, I share information for information. I have some Dagrada information and photos. Which car do you have? You may respond publicly, I suppose, but you may also respond directly to me at iicarATearthlink.net

Best regards.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Have we a given in solving this question. A petty I think. But I have to admit that I cant se better proposal than the one from velocedoc with the Lancia Aprilia 1500 Monviso . it is very close I think
But shall we levee this question unsolved??? and open
 

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Here is a better quality scan:
Love the detective threads. Just some opinions: This car has many interesting styling features. Note the elongated grille and the matching notched front bumper, later Boano used a notched front bumper on 1900's with stylized front grille and Touring had notched rear bumper on 2000 Spider. The stylized headlights have been mentioned, note the spears on top and side of fender radiating from the headlamp trim. It also appears there is also a trim strip extending toward the bonnet from the top apex of the grille.The fat trim on the lower body is very well matched to the bumpers providing a "wrap" arround the body. The side rear window appear to have swing-out latches, not fixed. The front windsheild is split, giving the illusion of being curved while using flat glass. The rear treatment has been likened to Exner/Lowey designs, may have been influenced. It appears the rear widow is also flatglass but the stylist has cleverly blended it in with the rest of the very curvacious auto. Is the rumble seat wind screen curved glass of flat? I think this was very expensive body, the driver is wearing a cap and tie, a hired driver? To me the hubcaps appear very similar to touring hubcaps on another 2500 I've seen on the BB. How do the doors open? I don't see the handles, but could what looks like the lock be a button with hook? The Lancia Apprilia Grand Gala 1948 to me has some of same quality in terms of "bells and whistles" although it could also be the quality of the photo. My guess is either Boano (Ghia) or Touring, I don't think it was done by commitee. By the way, Parco Sempione where the photo was taken, is in the center of Milan.
 

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Last evening I found the attached ad at ebay.
It shows a Lancia Aprilia Berlina Gran Lusso by Stabilimenti Farina - if we can trust the seller;)

Obviously another very early car with the headlights like our unknown 6C2500. For me it is a real surprise to see such an innovative and avandgarde design by Stab. Farina, I always regarded them as very conservative.


Best regards
Ciao Carlo:cool:
 

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6C 2500 Chassis, Very Unlikely!

I have only recently joined the ABB and I have just found this discussion. Thought the coach work of this car does bear some resemblance to a 6C 2500 photo I have seen in the dim dark past. I don't believe this car is on a 6C 2500 chassis.

The long front overhang, the wheel base and distance from the front wheel centre to the front of the door opening and steering wheel (thus the driver) are all wrong for a 6C 2500. Even the "motor avanzio" chassis. The trailing arm suspension system of the 6C requires the leading pivots must be mounted across the front of the chassis and usually in front of or level with the the radiator. That means the front axels must be adjacent with the front of the engine block. The engine front in the 6C was never ahead of the axel line as in all of the later monocoque bodied cars (1900, 750, 101 etc.). I don't think there is any way that a 2.5 litre six could be housed under that bonnet.

Alfa did study a successor to the 6C 2500 in 1948 with a prototype design for the 6C 3000 and this car could have been inspired by it. The long frontal overhang the wrap around rear window, squared headlights. The split windscreen is pure 6C 2500 though. There were few existing moulded screens to choose from in the early 50s in Europe.

I think it is a lavishly bodied 1900 and that the "1948" date on the caption is out by two or three years.
 

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Unlikely? Maybe. Maybe not.

Welcome 2500_6C_Berlina,

You have made some interesting observations and I agree to a point. The dimensions around the front overhang/suspension location are a bit odd and incongruous for an unmodified 6C2500 of any type. But, the nature of the "avantreno" (which is not really a front axle) of a 6C2500 makes it relatively easy to move the units around a bit with only space considerations and related linkages being the real potential complications. And, a radiator can be placed anywhere there is space. The "Alfa Romeo" style of radiator grille was also used on a few Delahaye but the dimensional oddities of this carrozzeria would be no simpler to justify for a Delahaye than they are for an Alfa Romeo.

The look of the subject "mystery" was particularly popular for a time in 1948. There were some later attempts to capture some of the design elements but I think the 1948 date is probably fairly accurate. I can't be certain from the photo, but it appears to me as if perhaps all the glass panes are flat rather than curved? (Looking back a bit I see that "rogerspeed" also noted this) Most major coachbuilders would order up custom curved glass in a heartbeat in the 1950-55 time period if it suited their styling needs and particularly if there was a perceived market for even a few additional examples of their work that might use it.

I believe I've seen a photo of this mystery "Alfa" previously. I've begun to do a systematic search through my files to see if I can locate it. The whole process may take quite some time as there are other matters that are often more pressing. But, I have now gone through my Boneschi file and have made some hasty scans of the most interesting references from the 1930's to about 1950. I will post these in another thread titled simply "Boneschi". In those, you will find a couple of references to this basic style used 1948 by Boneschi and a 1949 reference indicating that the curved windows at the rear of the Boneschi-bodied versions were made of plexiglass.

More to follow.

John
 
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