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Discussion Starter #21
Yes Stu. Some of them is the Fornai. I have great pleasure of the , not the best quality in picture, but they gives a lot of info on the individual Carrozzeria you find in other places. The Ghia pictures is from The Ghia Book and Beboschi pictures is from the Benoschi book. You can clearly se the diff in the picture quality. But the Fornai´s gives a lot of value for app. 25 Euro. I lost you mail address on the old PC. If you are interested I can make a scan of the FrontPages of what I have.

I attach a picture of the Balbo Logo. I don't think it gives a lot of trace. The Carrozzeria Balbo is one of those that I difficult to give a specific place in the market. They did 8C2500 Bodies back in the 30. But here after WWV2, they struggle just to survey. But that situation could also lead to doing something diff.
I have an other picture from Lombardi of a rear design on a Fiat 500 from 1950.
Just to get the confusion complete
 

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Gilena appears to have all the books Fornai wrote, including some I didn't know about. Here is a direct link.. I guess I will send them an order...

Title

CARROZZIERI ITALIANI (VOL 1) 25,00

CARROZZIERI ITALIANI (VOL 2) 25,00

CARROZZIERI ITALIANI (VOL 3) 25,00

FRUA 1944-1983 25,00

GIOVANNI MICHELOTTI 1921-1979 28,00

LANCIA ARDEA E APPIA 25,00

MORETTI 1928-1986 25,00

SIATA 1926-1974 25,00

VIGNALE 1946-1974 26,00

http://www.gilena.com/negozio/home.asp?id=487102688&da= (click on search by author and type in Fornai)
 

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Lombardi of a rear design on a Fiat 500 from 1950.
Just to get the confusion complete


The plot thickens... :)
I have never heard of Lombardi, but your Fiat 500 makes the match to the designer just by the rear window alone.

Wouldn't you believe that one designer sees something unique from another and takes his own creative pencil to come up with another interpretation. So which comes first? The chick or the egg...or in this case...Balbo or Lombardi? :D
 

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Can anybody blow this up better?

It looks like the Boneschi logo but that is all ..........

Who was using Square headlamps and rear mounted semaphores?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
velocedoc: Wouldn't you believe that one designer sees something unique from another and takes his own creative pencil to come up with another interpretation. So which comes first? The chick or the egg...or in this case...Balbo or Lombardi?

You are absolutely right it is borough elements
I mentioned Raymond Loewy in an earlier post. As I se it, he was the first to use this rear design in 1945/46, if I recall right. Al the others are borough ideas. In connection with the Lombardi from 1950. I suppose a customer just walked into the bussines, and ordered a Fiat with that rear end design, and the standard front.
But borough design it is. But it makes it so dam difficult to identifies the body builder
A few pictures of Studebaker Commander
 

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Discussion Starter #28
vroom: nice job with enlarging the logo.But I think we are on a wrong track with Boneschi

I have tried to trace the Boneschi logo that is on this site web site posted in post 8.
In the book about Carrozzeria Boneschi, I am unable to find any indication of that logo used on any of pictured car in the book.
If you look at the picture of the Fiat 1400 and the Lancia and the Monterosa 8c, at the rear upper part of the front mud guard, you will se what is used. The shield with a springing Dear with a crown on the top.
At the end of the 50 beginning of the 60 the logo changes to the rectangular that shown at the button of the site at attach Benoschi logos . It is a scan from the Benoschi book.
 

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I see where you coming from and agree.

Boneschi is indeed a long shot!

I'm intrigued by the square lights so I will try and follow that clue for a little bit.

I must say that if it wasn't for the fact the car is pictured in Milan, I would almost be tempted to look at some non Italian Carroserie.

Many thanks, John
 

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Here is a picture from an unnamed source that also reflects the rear window treatment. It is a Lancia Aprilia 1500 Monviso (what ever that is).

The Studebaker is certainly a styling all of its own as was the bullet nose. Ala Tucker maybe? :) One begats another. The GTV has several cars in its design.
Anyone have a Savio logo? Maybe it was CarrozerriaSavio on the side of our mystery car?
The people in this thread just amaze me at the depth of your knowledge. :D
 

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I was able to speak Tito Anselmi about his picture and he told me that during the research for his 6C 2500 Alfa Romeo book (about ten years ago!) he surely saw the picture in a period issue of the magazine Auto Italiana.
The car was built by a minor Milanese coachbuilder, maybe one named Meteor, but unfortunately he did not keep a record, nor a copy of the page.

Is this the right direction ?

Luc Colemont
 

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I was able to speak Tito Anselmi about his picture and he told me that during the research for his 6C 2500 Alfa Romeo book (about ten years ago!) he surely saw the picture in a period issue of the magazine Auto Italiana.
The car was built by a minor Milanese coachbuilder, maybe one named Meteor, but unfortunately he did not keep a record, nor a copy of the page.

Is this the right direction ?

Luc Colemont
There was a coachbuilding company called Meteor, but as far as I am aware, they only did FIATS, and mostly racing cars....and probably less than 10 cars total. I don't think the 6c2500 is by them. There are photos of the Pasquinelli/FIAT/Dagrada 750 bodied by Meteor on pages 133 and 134 of the book La Sport E I Suoi Artigiani 1937-1965 by Curami and Vergnano.....
 

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Discussion Starter #36
velocedoc
Thanks for posting the Lancia Aprillia by Monviso.
In my eyes its as close we come to similar design, and with out the badges ,I would gladly "state" these cars came from the same Carrozzeria.
In the book "!Carrozzeria Italiano" is there stated regarding Monviso.
"Among the most interesting models from this firm , the following are especially noteworthy: the 1949 Lancia Aprillia coupe with wrap-around rear window. The Stella Alpina sports model on Fiat 1100 B or E chassis and Rondine Sport on Fiat 1400."
Monviso was short lived and after cooperation with Ghia. It was finally absorbed by Ghia in 1955.

Interesting thoughts with comparing the Champignon with the Tucker, I could go further and take the Monofaro (single headlamp) in the Italian design into consideration. I don't know whom came first. But it could be a basic for am individual tread.

Freccia.
Interesting connection. Re stated by DR. I would say the demand for producing a car like The Alfa is much more demanding than producing a etceterini.
But in the book about the 6C2500 by Anselmi, it is stated that Stabilimento Monviso got the chassis 915384.
Do you have a possibility, by using you connection, to verify if there is surfaced more info on this chassis.
 

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Many thanks to all for your efforts!!!

About the photo itself, I am very sorry that I cannot enlarge it further. The actual photo in the book is quite small in fact.
Please allow me a short remark, as I think identifying the car by its badge leads us not further.
We should also focus on the rectangular headlights, like Luc already mentioned!
Those must have been very unusual. When you check the 6C2500 book, you will see what I mean, as you won't find any version with them. I think in 1947 those items must have been an absolute eye-catcher!

Luc, many many thanks for your sofisticated contribution!
Interesting to hear Mr. Anselmi's comment on the photo. I think his hint will bring us to the sollution of this mystery.
Btw, I ask myself why the car doesn't appear in the 6C2500 book as Mr. Anselmi was aware of this remarkable car:confused:

Whatever, obviously the answer lies in an issue of the Auto Italiana.....
Just need to find the right issue;)

Best regards
Ciao Carlo:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Carlo;Btw, I ask myself why the car doesn't appear in the 6C2500 book as Mr. Anselmi was aware of this remarkable car.
I fully agree, and one ask, one selves what ells can have been omitted. It does raise the question, is it the Authoritative work, that it is expected to be.

but clearly it is a difficult one you have presented.
Opposite you, I think the badge is the only way to find the official Carrozzeria for this car. On the other hand I think, that we in this case are in a situation where we have 2 diff carrozzeria. One official the badge, and an unofficial, that has produced the car as sub supplier.
We know from other examples, that there was a lot cooperating between the diff companies.
On the top end of the hereto we have here short after the war.
Castagna,Benoschi,the 2 Farinas,Ghia,Touring, Vignale was just entering
on second level there was company's as Allemano, Balbo,Savio etc.
lower we have the Colli,Motta ,Marazzi,etc
We have read a lot of tales about famous cars wearing a label from one of the big, but the car is actually produced in one of the small Carrozzeria. the cooperation between Colli and Touring. The tales that all Siata cars is actually build by Motta regardless of what badge the body whereas.
To me the badge testifies at what Carrozzeria did the design of the car. But where a actually was build was a question of the free production capacity at the company who received the order.
I think this car in question is one of this cases where there is 2 diff. carrozzeria.
If we look at the design of the car, it is so diff. from what else we se from the period Italian designs. I is hard to find any trace, at least I don't have the ability, elements to a specific designee or carrozzeria. The design is simply to odd for Italy at this time.
So for me the first trace is the badge. It would be nice if the Auto Italiana turns up with the answer, but if we relay on it, I think, Carlo, that you have a Mystery that you car carry with you for a long time.
 

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As difficult as this car is to discover exactly what it is, try tracing the history of some of the etceterini. As they passed from owner to owner, many things were modified by a secondary coachbuilder and even motors were changed from one brand to another along the way.

As to Anselmi's 6c2500 book, I think it is probably as good as it will ever get. Hopefully, someone will do a book on the 6c2300 and 6c2300B cars...
 

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I completely agree with Stu that the Anselmi 6C2500 book is still one of the best Alfa Romeo books that were ever published. The amount of photographic material is outstanding as is the quality of all the pictures. Perhaps that was the reason that Tito did not included the Auto Italiana picture in his book.. The index with all the chassis numbers and first owners is an incredible amount of valuable information for all of us... It's true that it gives the impression that it is a catalogue of all the 6C2500 that were produced, but as we know there are still unknown and "hitherto" unreported cars.... But that makes our passion even more interesting....
I hope I will find some time to go a library in Eindhoven were they still have many of these Auto Italiana magazines...

Luc

Luc
 
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