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Discussion Starter #1
Hey again members, its been a long time since I've logged in, but I just graduated and made the move to the West Coast. Yes, I brought the spider. and yes, its already broken down haha. but i still think it was worth it! anyway, lets start with the present issue then ill fill in the blanks from the past.

I woke up this morning, went to my car, and found my battery completely dead. it read 0.15v with a voltmeter. Ouch. I walked up the street, bought a new battery and put it in. Now its turning over at least, but it still won't start. I popped the hood, pulled a spark plug wire, turned it over once more and saw there was no spark. New battery is reading ~12.6v.

For the past couple of years I've had a lot of trouble starting the car. it would crank and crank and crank, I'd try again with no result, and Id try once more and it would fire up. I suspected something was on its way out but my dad and I didn't know what it could be. I'm starting to think, did whatever it was that was causing that finally die on me? :confused: maybe the coil or something?

My dad made a few calls and talked to Benny at Johns Auto, who mentioned there was a crank sensor under the windshield washer reservoir. I pulled out the reservoir, but didn't see any crank sensor on the firewall. Does anybody have a picture of this crank sensor? any advice or suggestions as to what to try next?

Thanks a ton.
 

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Im here , but can only offer moral support, right now. 2000 miles away. Not like the good ol days......

Oh, Jr's address above should now say LA area.

Benny suggested to unclip that sensor under reservoir, on firewall . I dont remember it, but dont have a photographic memory. Benny did all he could on the phone. He said theres also an rpm counter within reach from the top of the engine bay in that same area under reservoir(not necessary to crawl under car). Not sure where these sensors are.

If we cant get Jr's car started this weekend, will have to tow it to John's (Benny) Monday. I figured to Jr, lets try the good ol forum and got nothing to loose.

Thanks!
 

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May we assume y'all are aware of the Spider L-jetronic diagnosis page? Link in my signature.

Measure battery voltage during cranking. It must be over ~ 10.5V for the computers to wake up and send the spark/fuel singals. It can sound like it is cranking over OK but if available voltage is below that threshold nothing is gonna happen (except you'll wear down the battery even more). New does not mean fully charged. I have even seen 'new' batteries with shorted internals. It would measure good at rest but go dead as soon as it was asked to supply any significant amount of electrons.

Since starting is the hardest task the battery is called upon to accomplish, make sure all electrical connections between the battery & starter are 100%. Don't assume they are OK because they look good and feel tight - remove, clean and secure each one. Even if the problem is something else that should be done as part of preventative maintenance so it won't be wasted effort.
 

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Thanks, Eric. So, "static' voltage at 12.6 or so doesnt mean much then?

L Jet-doesnt that have to do mainly with fuel? Is it relevant to an elec problem still?

Only challenge now then, is to measure it while cranking.......we need 2 people. Thats a problem now. Maybe we could enlist the help of a fellow neighbor in the apartment complex........
 

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Got a voltmeter? Got some wire? Make some extra long test leads, position the voltmeter where you can see it from the driver's seat and connect your extra long test leads to the battery.

The L-jet page shows you where the various sensors are located and how to test them. There are two flywheel sensors. The connectors to the wire harness are located near/under the windshield washer reservoir. The actual sensors are bolted to the bell housing. Unless one or both have fallen out... Note the sensors are identical but have to be connected to the wire harness correctly.
 

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if you need a extra sensor,i can get on from a bmw at the local pick and pull
 

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Thanks, Eric and Randall. Heres where we're at:

As soon as Jr wakes up in LA (3 hrs behind), I'll get him to check voltage while cranking. He just moved there, so he has v litle tools/etc, (I DID send him a voltmeter) but maybe he can pop the alternator/batt junction box and wedge one meter terminal in the wires there, and the other , stick it into a hole nearby I remember seeing, for the ground.

Then, he can s-t-r-e-t-c-h and start the car with key while observing meter, eh?

I suspect, realistically, that a NEW battery is not the culprit, though. And we need to go to the next step-verifying the spark at the tip of the coil wire pulled out of the center of the distributor, watch for arcing as it is placed near the top of engine.

IF no spark, then we go to those 2 sensor connections , maybe clean then with solvent.......

Sigh. Feeling helpless 2000 miles away.......
 

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Now, is it possible its just a fuse responsible for sparking? If so, which fuse/circuit?

Also, it just hit me- we just finised fixing some wires at the ignition switch.....you know, the connector right where the switch clips to the other black clip with 4 wires (they were loose, preventing even turning over). wonder if theres a problem there. Question now: would that ignit switch connection have anything to do with supplying the coil with voltage, even though yes, we got it to crank over???? Some elec drawings Ive seen of other cars show a ignit wire feeding the coil........
 

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would that ignit switch connection have anything to do with supplying the coil with voltage, even though yes, we got it to crank over????
Yes. But there are two different circuits; one for ignition and the other for the starter. Both must work for engine start.

Simple test. Turn on the ignition and look at the dash. Do the gauges and warning lights work? If so, I'd check the flywheel sensors. If not, suspect the ignition switch or it's wiring.
 

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Yes. But there are two different circuits; one for ignition and the other for the starter. Both must work for engine start.

Simple test. Turn on the ignition and look at the dash. Do the gauges and warning lights work? If so, I'd check the flywheel sensors. If not, suspect the ignition switch or it's wiring.
Thanks, Jim. Will do. easy to test. PM sent......
 

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We (me and Bigpapajoe) got spark from coil wire !! Then tried a plug (closest one to driver) and got 2 sparks with 8 revolutions!! I dont have a clear picture of 4 stroke ignition sequence, guys, but is 2 sparks about right?

If so, maybe we need to look at now something else......fuel(?)

May be time to get a can of ether......
 

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need a few more sparks,, try this,, get a clip and wire to the ground part of the spark plug, then turn over,, sometime just laying the plug body on some metal won't work the best..
 

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need a few more sparks,, try this,, get a clip and wire to the ground part of the spark plug, then turn over,, sometime just laying the plug body on some metal won't work the best..
Thanks, Randall, but I think I should have ben clearer......Jr got a spark by pulling the plug wire, then inserting a screwdriver in the terminal end, and laying this on top of cam cover. NOT by removing the spark plug. This was only to confirm spark up to the tip of the wire terminal of course. Im assuming plugs are OK.....

He has no sockets, BTW.......

Still, are 2 sparks per 8 turns right?
 

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Don't know that I would be able to help get it started, but if you'd want a second set of hands and eyes in there, PM me. I can help jiggle around some wires, check connections, at the very least provide another another car to try and jump start, if the battery is getting worn down. Has he tested out those sensors? When he turns the ignition on, is he hearing the fuel pump energize for a second?
 

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Don't know that I would be able to help get it started, but if you'd want a second set of hands and eyes in there, PM me. I can help jiggle around some wires, check connections, at the very least provide another another car to try and jump start, if the battery is getting worn down. Has he tested out those sensors? When he turns the ignition on, is he hearing the fuel pump energize for a second?
Thanks a million, Shad. He believes he heard the fuel pump hummmmmmmm. Nice of you to offer help/extra hands! Specially if youre in same town just about! PM sent........
 

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... sears,, get a 1/4"drive metric drive set, and a 3/8" drive set, a craftsman screwdriver set, and a wire crimper/stripper kit, and a metric allen key set... that will do 80% of the jobs he needs to do out here in california, and snall enough to keep in the trunk.. cost?$$$ less than $100.00-125.00.. what ever you do don't buy that craftsman 150 peice set.. has all those inch thinge, that we don't you.1/2 of you money wasted
 

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It's alive!

The car had two problems and still has a third.
It was flooded. Performing a clear-flood start (to include disconnecting the CSI) got it started. A few minutes later though, it dies and won't start. Another clear-flood start and it's running. Then, a few minutes later, again the engine dies WHILE THE GAUGES FLICKER ON AND OFF. This is problem #2. A bad connection in the switched power wire from the ignition switch. This was repaired and all is well.
The third problem is an over rich mixture (which may have contributed to the flooding). This is being checked into...
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
edit: Jim beat me to it!! haha

Thanks for all the suggestions and support...its great to be back here. Thanks to all the advice and some patient step by step help from Jim, I found out that my car is running super rich (18-19mpg). Unplugged the cold start injector, held the gas pedal to the floor with the aux air valve open and turned it over...8 secs later it roared up. guess that means it was flooded.

Then 2 mins later it died (the circle of life). So I went back under the dash and while I was trying to splice into a wire to check the voltage on the ignition switch I noticed a loose wire. re spliced it, twisted it and taped it up. now it roars up and stays roaring. double whammy.

gonna get the fuel pressure tested hopefully sometime early next week...Im hoping that the fumes I've been getting in the cabin are due to the rich fuel mixture, maybe once the mixtures leveled out I can finally smell the leather again! haha

Thanks again. and to the members in my area, maybe we can all get together for a socal meet sometime. or if theres already an existing one out here, shoot me a PM and i'll stop by once this fuel thing is cleared up
 
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