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Discussion Starter #1
HI folks,

I am in need of assistance from this very knowledgeable group.
I have a set of 4 cylinder cam shafts which I think are European.
I do not know alot about Alfa part numbers so can someone tell me what I have here.

The numbers cast on the shafts are 105480320051 and 1B on one and What looks like an O on the other.
My Centerline catalog lists 105480320001 as Euro 2 liter but what does the last two digits being 51 instead of 01 mean?

Also do any of the US parts houses sell a good degree wheel?

Thank you very much.
MrC
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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Can't help with the part numbers 'til I can get to the parts books later this evening. To be honest, the 51 does not ring a bell.

Some autoparts stores may have a degree wheel but any speed shop should. Mine's made by Moroso (I think) that I got out of NAPA.
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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The 105.48.03.200.01 cams first came out with the series 2 Euro 1750s and continued into the Euro 2l engines. Specs are;

valve timing - 41/60/54/35 w/clearances of .018" intake and .021" exhaust
seat duration - 281 deg intake and 269 deg exhaust
overlap - 76 deg
lobe centers - 99.5 deg
duration @ .050" lift - 230 deg
lift - 10.1mm (.397")

The "51" is not mentioned nor is the "1B", at least in the 1972 version Alfa parts book I have. An old Alfa Ricambi catalog makes no mention of these numbers either nor lists any Alfa cam part number ending in 51. Perhaps a later version parts book could shed some light? Or maybe degree them with your new degree wheel and compair specs. Until then, your guess is as good as mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Papajam,
Thanks very much for the info. I will email a couple of folks in the old country to see if they know any more. Will let you know if anything comes of the search.
MrC
 

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105480320051

mr. c. and papajam,
have you guys ever found out what the 105480320051 cams are?
i happen to have 2 engines with the same type of cams and they look like they were stamped from the factory.
thanks!
benji
 

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Search the BB for "mystery cams" and you'll have all the info you could ever want. Richard Jemison has done a full profile on these cams, and they're very interesting. I have a set in my '74 Spider and like them very much.

-Jason
 

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I'd be all over a set of "51" cams. If anyone wishes to part with a set, please let me know.

Will
 

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Richard Jemison
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7,187 Posts
10548 cams

These cams were covered in depth on the BB last year. Do a search for "Mystery cams". Although they are not... Both are cursed with too much early duration that will kill torque. You certailly don`t want to run a "pair" of either.
Here are the specs:

Alfa Romeo 10548 03200 51 Cam

Lift at Cam Duration at “0” lash

.001 304
.002 318
.010 314
.020 284
.040 259
.050 252
.080 234
.100 224
.150 206
.200 185
.250 162
.300 137
.350 108
.375 104
.400 68
.425 43
.430 26
.434 Max lift 11.04 mm


10548 03200 01 Cam Data

Cam Lift Dur. at “0” lash

.001 304
.002 310
.010 304
.020 278
.040 240
.050 230
.080 218
.100 211
.150 192
.200 173
.250 147
.300 118
.350 83
.375 58
.400 10
.401 Max Lift 10.2 mm
 

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Richard:

It is odd that the 105480320051 cam that you measured produced the results you posted below.

A very reputable cam shop took a pair of 51" cams and on more then one occasion they show the same results as the 01" cams. (.pdf above). Is it possible the individual "51" cam you tested was modified prior, or maybe you made a mistake? Have you tested more then one set? I know another that compared a 10548 "01" and 51" cam and there results were also very similar if not identical.



These cams were covered in depth on the BB last year. Do a search for "Mystery cams". Although they are not... Both are cursed with too much early duration that will kill torque. You certailly don`t want to run a "pair" of either.
Here are the specs:

Alfa Romeo 10548 03200 51 Cam

Lift at Cam Duration at “0” lash

.001 304
.002 318
.010 314
.020 284
.040 259
.050 252
.080 234
.100 224
.150 206
.200 185
.250 162
.300 137
.350 108
.375 104
.400 68
.425 43
.430 26
.434 Max lift 11.04 mm


10548 03200 01 Cam Data

Cam Lift Dur. at “0” lash

.001 304
.002 310
.010 304
.020 278
.040 240
.050 230
.080 218
.100 211
.150 192
.200 173
.250 147
.300 118
.350 83
.375 58
.400 10
.401 Max Lift 10.2 mm
 

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Richard Jemison
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Cam specs

:pI went back and reviewed the Cam Doctor numbers from WebCam for both the Two 10548/51 cams and the numbers I published below are correct. The cams are not modified, have stock base circles, slow factory profiles, match lift & duration similar to other51 marked stock cams.
I`ll stick with the previous post & information given.. If you want copies I`m sure Debbie will pull them & fax to you, They were done 8:51:41 AM 6-05-07. and will be in my files.
For you who havent seen "Rosso" with bad info before, here`s the link to the mystery cam site::p
I have a book full of WebCam`s CamDoctor printouts. None in the format he has on the links for the two cams? I am going to have Debbie & Laurie find out what they are. I suspect the "01" is the same cam as the "51" as they read 2 lobes. and the cam # was typed on the top by someone else other than WebCam?????????
If One reads how many 51 cams with 11mm lift exist why wou even bother with the Question Rosso?
You really are not right!:rolleyes:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/42190-mystery-camshafts-2.html
 

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Richard:

The .pdf files are directly from Webcam and they have them on file if you have any problem. Webcam tested two original/factory 10548 "51" cams and one "01" cam, it is very straight forward. Both the "51" cam and "01" cam seem very similar and nowhere near 11mm lift or duration you posted. Whaterver one off cam you gave them seems like a anomaly as you seem to be the only peson who has a "original 11mm 51 cam" which seems odd and not the case. Most likely it is not original or you may have accidently gave them the wrong cam number or that cam with "51" markings was modified.

Both of my "51" cams are factory marked and the results were run by Webcam in-house as I posted in the files in my previous post. Why don't you ask them for a copy, as you alluded that my files are somehow altered, is ridiculous. If you are so concerend get them yourself diretly from them. Also please post their printout of your 11mm "51" cam.

I know Jim K. also tested a original "51" cam and a 01" cam and found them to be the same, so that is 3documented "51" cams identical to "01" cams.... (there are many more "51" cams out there which the specs can be verified. See these additional posts as well. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine-rebuilding/34266-11mm-old-stock-cam-pics.html#post289092 http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/42190-mystery-camshafts-2.html#post372057

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this without you being rude or condesending. Lets keep it professional. Thanks.



:pI went back and reviewed the Cam Doctor numbers from WebCam for both the Two 10548/51 cams and the numbers I published below are correct. The cams are not modified, have stock base circles, slow factory profiles, match lift & duration similar to other51 marked stock cams.
I`ll stick with the previous post & information given.. If you want copies I`m sure Debbie will pull them & fax to you, They were done 8:51:41 AM 6-05-07. and will be in my files.
For you who havent seen "Rosso" with bad info before, here`s the link to the mystery cam site::p
I have a book full of WebCam`s CamDoctor printouts. None in the format he has on the links for the two cams? I am going to have Debbie & Laurie find out what they are. I suspect the "01" is the same cam as the "51" as they read 2 lobes. and the cam # was typed on the top by someone else other than WebCam?????????
If One reads how many 51 cams with 11mm lift exist why wou even bother with the Question Rosso?
You really are not right!:rolleyes:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/42190-mystery-camshafts-2.html
 

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Richard Jemison
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Cams

I wasn`t the only one with 11mm lift cams you nitwit!(see post by Dbest etc)
These cams belonged to Don Brubaker, were measured by Gordon Raymond, before comming to me and WebCam.
I`ve posted the results, and don`t need to do it any other way.
Anyone with "51" cams want to speak up with their lift let them do so.
What Alfa Does with Cam numbers is a known mess. You only read and report! Go stick your head in a book! Why don`t you use your name you little chicken ****!
Whos`s name was the profiles done in? I`ll look it up if you will advise!
 

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Thanks for the popcorn, it adds to the entertainment value. Don Brubaker, the past pres, of the Chicago AROC chapter, bought these somewhere and asked me to take a look before installing them as part of his engine rebuilding program. As a bit much for his application, they were sent to Richard, UNALTERED AND AS MARKED. RJ agreed, and they were sent to WebCam who confirmed both our feelings, and reworked them into something more reasonable for Don's application.
This is not the first time in the past 45 years, I have seen odd Alfa cams. My own GTA engine is running a pair of 10121.03.200.01, "1600 single plug 10 mm racing" cams. They measure 10.52+ and feature a full base circle, essentially the same as 10532.03.200.99 profile with the altered base circle. So what? A cam is what it is. Forget the numbers. ANYONE can stamp, or use a billet with any CAST in number. As Richard's measurements show, he measured them as they were. If others are different, but numbered the same, and anyone is surprised, they haven't spent enough time in the shop measuring Alfa stuff. More popcorn anyone?
 

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At least we now know the facts about the original stamped "51" cams now. Their specs are as I posted from Webcam's tested results for all to see which are on file with Webcam from their own findings. Again, these are very close to the "01" cams. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/anything-about-alfa-romeos-alfabb-com/1207-cam-shaft-part-numbers.html#post642860

And no, I was being sarcastic, you are clearly not the only one with "51" cams. Un-modified, original "51" cams from the AR factory are the specs posted above. This has been verified now several times. Others with the same cam will be able to verify and confirm the Webcam specs with you. Not only do I have two sets, but three freinds of mine have them as well all with the same "verified" results. One set with marked "51" numbers came directly from Alfa Romeo so we know they are accurate and unaltered.

As for your comment on your specs on what you beleive was a un-altered cam, I urge you to read this post again. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/42190-mystery-camshafts-2.html#post372057

Thanks for being so professional with this.

You should also take down the inaccurate specs on the "51" cams now before others get confused.
 

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Thanks for the popcorn, it adds to the entertainment value. Don Brubaker, the past pres, of the Chicago AROC chapter, bought these somewhere and asked me to take a look before installing them as part of his engine rebuilding program. As a bit much for his application, they were sent to Richard, UNALTERED AND AS MARKED. RJ agreed, and they were sent to WebCam who confirmed both our feelings, and reworked them into something more reasonable for Don's application.
This is not the first time in the past 45 years, I have seen odd Alfa cams. My own GTA engine is running a pair of 10121.03.200.01, "1600 single plug 10 mm racing" cams. They measure 10.52+ and feature a full base circle, essentially the same as 10532.03.200.99 profile with the altered base circle. So what? A cam is what it is. Forget the numbers. ANYONE can stamp, or use a billet with any CAST in number. As Richard's measurements show, he measured them as they were. If others are different, but numbered the same, and anyone is surprised, they haven't spent enough time in the shop measuring Alfa stuff. More popcorn anyone?
Several years ago, I was digging around the parts bins at Alfa West. I found several sets of what I would call blank cams. These cams were the raw castings that had not been machined with profiled lobes. They appeared to be right out of the moulds. They had the part number on them, but no hand stamped two digit number.

So far, no one has been able to produce an Alfa document that shows these cams (51) and their specs.
 

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I'll preface this post by saying that I've not (yet) personally seen a '51' cam so hopefully, the following will be an unbiased opinion on the disussion.

On one hand, we have a reputable engine builder who has measured the 51 cams to be of x specs. We also have evidence from a few owners of these cams that the lobes are visually different from the 01 cam.
On the other hand, we have another reputable engine builder who has measured the 51 cams to be of y specs. We also have evidence from a few owners of these cams that the lobes are NOT visually different from the 01 cam.

One could conclude from this is that both are correct. Meaning that there are two (possibly more?) profiles for the same part number. Wouldn't be the first time as evidenced by Gordon's 10121 cams that differ from factory published specs. And Alfa has previously been known not to document production changes. Perhaps the 51 cam falls into this category. Adding to this mystery is the lack of (at least so far) any Alfa published specs on the 51 cam. Not that it would matter much as listed production specs and actual components may not be the same.
 

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Richard Jemison
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Cam Measurements

The Cam measurements for the 105480320051 as I published them earlier are correct.
The cam was built as a different spec and an 11 mm lift originally.
Rosso the little Chicken **** has only tried to stir something he has no knowledge of as usual. He probably bought cams thinking he was getting high lift and got short and is miffed.
Tought ****.
Alfa has changed Specs on cams regularluy since the `70s.

You haven`t Given your name and Laurie and Debbie know nothing about PDF Files and cannot even open what you have???
What is your name Rosso??? I`ll pull your cam profiles.... and see if they are real. Can`t do it without ? Or were they fabrications since you are not forthcomming?
I believe you are just too CHICKENSH!T to use your name!:p
 

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You are a real trip...

It is called walking in with the actual cams and waiting for the printout and then scannig them in the computer for everyone to see..oy vey! Very simple, the files I posted are on file with Webcam in their computer. Just ask them for the cam#105480320051 I posted them for everyone to see. They verified with multiple "51" factory cams, I am not sure why ths is so difficult for you?

I think this puts a rest to it already.
 

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