Callaway or Chaparral?

14029 Views 78 Replies 22 Participants Last post by bianchi2, Nov 28, 2016

ToonRboy

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2007 (Edited)

There has been a bit of discussion (read: debate) on this (entirely between me and humanatek)

Anyhow, both (arguably again) the epitome of the top line GTV6. Very difficult to find any info on these puppies anymore. Because the Callaway was a factory sponsored limited production vehicle, getting detailed info is much easier. The UK guys are long gone. Here's a couple/three pics.

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Regularity rally Coupé

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Car seat

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Steering wheel Steering part

The main problem with either is that they are 116 cars that are 22+ years old. In North America, most likely a rust bucket, or at least existing in malaise with all the typical issues of the model. e.g. best owned by enthusiasts. It's a real shame but even if in mint condition, you'll have A/C that feels like a pygmy blowing on you through a straw, electric windows that move so slow, the carjacker will just move on, and of course the windshield wipers that a sloth can outrun. Totally unacceptable to all but Alfisti.

Martin makes a good point in that Callaway Cars is renowned and their work sanctioned by Alfa Romeo NA. Chaparral? An independant tuner. Bottom line?
Who knows? The value of these old cars is a bit intangible to those who absolutely have to have one. For everyone else, they're simply just a POS. ...I happen to dig 'em!

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fluffy

· #2 · Nov 12, 2007

Well, given that I own that Chaparral I'm kinda fond of it

Sure its a 25 year old car with rotten inner wings (Alfa's and Irish climate is not a good mix) and maybe not for the purist but there's just something about it...

Oh and its a nice refuge from the typical eurotrash and japanese bland-o-boxes on the roads today

Reactions: 2

Zunige

· #3 · Nov 12, 2007

The market is very tough on "tuned" cars that are not sanctioned by the factory, unless their is some legitimate racing provenance. The GTV6 is a classic, but not a true "collectible". The Callaway edition however, does have degree of collectible interest, as this factory approved edition has some serious performance. Thus, the Callaway would always come out on top of any car modified to similar a (or even better) degree of performance.

Best regards,

ToonRboy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 12, 2007 (Edited)

Hey fluffy,

I totally agree. Flash car indeed! Thanks for chiming in, those pics of your car was about all I could find out there - hope you don't mind me posting those. So far I've been lucky on the rust issue as my car hails from good 'ol Cali. Got a couple of bubbles on the top of the windshield though, and the ONLY rust-through is a 6"L x 1/8" bit under the rear hatch azz-end (common place to find it). Illinois won't be kind to her though...

The aforementioned discussion was here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/anything-about-alfa-romeos-alfabb-com/50657-ultimo-gtv6-2.html

Can you tell us more about your vehicle? Are you the original owner? From what I've read, they make 200+bhp. Can you tell us more about that & how they achieved it, and what your car's got?

Many thanks,

Zunige: That may be a a true blanket statement, but (now that you can watch Barrett-Jackson on cable) as you may be aware, the American "Pony car" phenomenon is big and I've seen original cars fair less well than the resto-modded cars and vice/versa . Many variables are involved such as color, condition, fit/finish etc. Guys who buy for museums will be more concerned with racing pedigree and originality, but these days buyers (more fat-cats) will pay big $$ for a bad-azzed car because they like it, want to drive it, and want to be seen in it!

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scootergeek

· #5 · Nov 12, 2007

I'd like the Chaparral esthetics with the Callaway motor.

cheers,
scott

Zunige

· #6 · Nov 12, 2007

ToonRboy said:
Zunige: That may be a a true blanket statement, but (now that you can watch Barrett-Jackson on cable) as you may be aware, the American "Pony car" phenomenon is big and I've seen original cars fair less well than the resto-modded cars and vice/versa . Many variables are involved such as color, condition, fit/finish etc. Guys who buy for museums will be more concerned with racing pedigree and originality, but these days buyers (more fat-cats) will pay big $$ for a bad-azzed car because they like it, want to drive it, and want to be seen in it!

I agree that such is very true for American cars, and it has been even more accentuated with the muscle car craze, but is very different for European cars. I mean, there have always been drive-in type events in which people bring completely customized American cars, and people place a very real (read expensive) dollar value on these examples, but that has never been the case for European cars...

Best regards,

fluffy

· #7 · Nov 12, 2007 (Edited)

Interesting enough discussion ye had

There is a few items I might be able to clear up though. I'm the 4th owner of this car and have more or less full history along with details of the conversion.
This was an expensive conversion (~15K sterling + your car back in 1990), approx 10 to 15 cars were ever converted and I'm not sure how many still exist - given the target market was the UK I suspect rust has gotten to many of them.

The car was stripped to bare metal and rebuilt with new leather interior (even the sunvisors are leather clad!!) and full zender bodykit, compomotive alloys etc..
The engine was rebuilt bored to 2.6, p&p'd, new cams, CSC exhaust etc and was supposed to produce 200bhp and hit 140mph but I certainly can't confirm these figures !!
Sure, its not as powerful as a Callaway and maybe unauthorised but does make it any less of a collectable GTV6 ?? I certainly don't think so and as for market value - its not for sale so that irrelevant to me at least

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5yearplan

· #8 · Nov 12, 2007

what are the specs of the Chaparral GTV6? I am not familiar with it.

AR4me

· #9 · Nov 13, 2007

BTW, the GTV6 Callaway is largely unknown outside of North America. I wonder if it is recognized as much more than a "tuner" Alfa in many places. I suspect many Europeans would consider it on equal terms with (as an example) todays Novitec modified Alfas.
BTW, I owned a GTV6 Callaway for many years and always thought it was somewhat odd that suspension and brakes were not upgraded along with the power.
Jes

AlfaTango1

· #10 · Nov 13, 2007

I guess there's a coolness factor with being able to say "Mine is twin turboed" also since it was Alfa NA warranteed and dealer sold it seems a bit more legit. However I do like a normaly asperated engine putting out 210 hp and uprated brakes and suspension. Heck I'd like either one but since I'm here in the states I guess the Callaway name would sway me in that direction.

HenryKrinkle

· #11 · Nov 13, 2007

I've always been fond of the work Chaparral did with the GTV6, and considering the only one I've actually seen pictures of within the last 5 years, is the same one pictured above, that was posted on the BB a little while back, I'd say you will rarely come by one. heh.

Here's the resource I usually use for the Chaparral car.(although they seem to get the spelling wrong?)
AROC Goodwood - Feature: Chapparal B10

It seems you needed to bring in your own car, donor car, etc. so who knows exactly how many were produced? But the site guesses around 20, which would put it about as "rare" as the Callaway just based on the #'s.. Not speaking of collectability.

As far as I'm concerned, both cars are completely different and equally desirable, and why both would command a hefty price tag over a stock gtv6, understandably. I've seen Callaway's sell for a hefty price tag, and for far under the "normal" 20K the seller's seem to find it's worth, so like anything else it would depend on the condition of the car and it's provenance.. (provenance and gtv6 used in the same sentence?? yup.. )
The history and story of the Callaway GTV6 is great, I'm sure humanatek can talk about this more, there is a website linking a great interview with Humanatek and Reeves Callaway himself.

AlfaCentro.com Feature Article: An Afternoon with Reeves Callaway

I really wish there were a group today that did a complete package like Chaparral did, it would surely be expensive, but if a group (like Autodelta UK does for newer cars) were to create a package of upgrades, perhaps it would save costs then say, an independent owner doing this work from scratch....
Perhaps CCHan would like to discuss his production costs..? kidding.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfetta-gtv6-1975-1986/32854-82-gtv6-restoration-project.html

Specifically the interior (complete dashboard and panels upgrade) and mechanical (engine to 220 NA, Tranny with lightened gears,etc?) . that would be great. Wishful thinking and because of demand would probably be easier and more fun to just do it yourself. Again I'll refer you to CCHan.

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cchan

· #12 · Nov 13, 2007

Chaparral Alfa

Hello,

I am familar with the Callaway GTV6 and I remember when they were sold new. I think they cost around $27,000 USA. I never remembered seeing a Chaparral Alfa. It looks like it has a full zender kit with hood. I have that hood as well, but did not install it. I am not sure what the specs are but I am sure if I searched I will locate this.

In regards to the build of my GTV6. I was able to to pursuade the underwriter to insure the GTV6 for my full restoration value not including my time. This was a great accomplish on setting the value since Hagerty would not agree to ACV unless they felt that the ACV was there. Let me just say that this is way higher than the $10,000 for a perfect GTV6.

We built this Alfa for other reasons than reselling and I think that maybe one day we maybe able to get one of my Car Friends to purchase it. However, I really don't think that I would sell it since I feel that GTV6's are classics (25 yrs old) and will be collectable in the future.

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ToonRboy

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 14, 2007 (Edited)

No doubt that over time as fewer and fewer GTV6's remain, a pristine example might be worth something. BTW - It's easy for some journalist to estimate what he thinks a classic vehicle might be worth. After all, he's not the one coughing up for it. Bottom line: ALL commodities follow the demand/supply model and the interesting thing here IMO is the demand side. 'Not too many cchan's out there willing to drop that much dookee on a 116 car. Not when you can have a well sorted brand new Mustang 4.0 for 5k less that will beat you in every category except exclusivity. Hard to put a price tag on that exclusivity thing innit?

I ask forgiveness if comparing the Chaparral to the Callaway incensed those loyal to the latter. The reaction it spurred seemed as if I was comparing Mother Teresa to a trailer-park crack addict....

I really hope that every nite after polishing your Gotti rims and saying your prayers to the inflation gods - you truly get your wish someday.

Me? I'll just keep buying the cleanest examples I can find (on the cheap), fix 'em up, drive 'em like your supposed to, and have a good time!

Sure, its not as powerful as a Callaway and maybe unauthorised but does make it any less of a collectable GTV6 ?? I certainly don't think so and as for market value - its not for sale so that irrelevant to me at least

I'm with you on that fluffy!

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G

· #14 · Nov 14, 2007

Can a well-sorted Mustang 4.0 out handle a RS Racing tuned GTV-6? Handling is a category. I'm just wondering out load.

David

5yearplan

· #15 · Nov 14, 2007

Slew: I doubt it, esp with a solid axle. I think money for money a mustang will out lap a 116, but then again you get what you pay for.

I think the Chaparral version is more tasteful and practical, but the Callaway has more value in the sense of pedigree (at least stateside). It's the difference between a BMW 3 Series with motor,brake, and suspension work and an M3. The M3 is technically worth more (or has more acclaim) because of it's pedigree.

AlfaTango1

· #16 · Nov 14, 2007

SlewofDamascus said:
Can a well-sorted Mustang 4.0 out handle a RS Racing tuned GTV-6? Handling is a category. I'm just wondering out load.

David

Of course you mean the 5.0 V8, the current eight is a 4.6 over head cam motor.

G

· #17 · Nov 14, 2007

Actually, I was repeating the car quoted in the message prior to mine - I wouldn't know a Mustang 4.0 from a 5.0, quite honestly. But I understood that a RS Racing tuned suspension on a GTV-6 provides it with very few rivals in terms of handling, including modern rivals. That understanding is word of mouth, not empirical.

Thanks.

David

AR4me

· #18 · Nov 14, 2007

SlewofDamascus said:
But I understood that a RS Racing tuned suspension on a GTV-6 provides it with very few rivals in terms of handling, including modern rivals.

There are many great handling cars. Older cars just cannot compete in chassis stiffness with modern cars. Only way to improve that on a GTV6 is with some serious chassis reinforcement (read: full race car cage).
Jes

G

· #19 · Nov 14, 2007

I hear what you are saying, but in terms of 'streetable" examples, which the Mustang and RS Racing [streetable] tuned GTV-6 fall into, I still wonder if the GTV-6 can't hold its own with modern examples?

Thanks.

David

mjr

· #20 · Nov 14, 2007

can an american muscle car outhandle a GTV6? Thats a good one:

in a straight line yes. american coupes just arent developed for handling.

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