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Hello everybody, I am an alfista from Brazil. I live in the capital: Brasilia. I fell in love for the brand when I was a child. Today I have 3 Alfas: Spider 1997 (Nero - Black), 164 Super 1995 (Blu Genoa - Dark Metallic Blue) and a Ti 2300 1979 (Marrom Siena - Light Brown), the last one is also known as Alfa Rio. I just sold my 156 V6 2003. I think that you guys already know the 164, Spider (type 916) and 156, so I am posting pictures of my Alfa 2300. The engine is a 4 cylinder in line, with dual over head camshaft and 2.3 liters. Originally came with disc brakes on all 4 wheels, sodium-cooled valves and a 5-speed gearbox. Best Regards from Brasil! Casé













 

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Welcome to the BB casedf. This is a fantastic resource for Alfa lovers and you will meet some wonderful people from every corner of the planet. That car looks pristine. How does it perform compared to the 2 litre twin cams we are familiar with elsewhere in the world? Please post pics of your other Alfas. We never get tired of looking at Alfas of any model.
 

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Hello and welcome. My Wife is from Anapolis, Goias. I have spent some time in your area and have visited Brasilia, Caldas Nova, Goiania, and many other places. During my visit I discovered how great the people, food, and music, I cant wait to go again. I might have to look you up next time we are in Brasil. Now we are living in California, but my wife has her family there. Very nice Alfa's.
 

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Bom dia, Case,

I have a FNM 2300 in my 1959 Alfa "2000" Roadster. Apart from some early issues, it is running nicely and has excellent power compared to the original 2000 engine. I have been in touch with Flavio Tiago in Brasil, who also has a 2300, and has been of immense help to me in obtaining parts for my engine.

I will be flying a small airplane from Uruguay up through Brasil back to the USA this coming December. I'm not sure where I will stop for fuel and overnight rest. Perhaps we can meet and I will buy you a drink for your commitment to our beloved Alfas?

I wish it was easier to export a car from Brasil, as I would certainly like to have a late model 2300ti. Some of them are very nicely equipped.

Cheers,
D
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Welcome to the BB casedf. This is a fantastic resource for Alfa lovers and you will meet some wonderful people from every corner of the planet. That car looks pristine. How does it perform compared to the 2 litre twin cams we are familiar with elsewhere in the world? Please post pics of your other Alfas. We never get tired of looking at Alfas of any model.
Welcome to the BB casedf. This is a fantastic resource for Alfa lovers and you will meet some wonderful people from every corner of the planet. That car looks pristine. How does it perform compared to the 2 litre twin cams we are familiar with elsewhere in the world? Please post pics of your other Alfas. We never get tired of looking at Alfas of any model.

Dear Oz3litre,

this is an amazing forum. I am a member of alfaromeobr.com.br , a virtual community in Brazil, that is an e-group with a website and +1000 members. Visit our website. Google Chrome may help you if you don't speak portuguese. Click on the translate button and enjoy it.

This Alfa 2.3 litre engine was a development of the 2 litre 4-cyl twimcam of Alfa type 102 cars. In Brazil the type 102 was produced under licence by the FNM (initially an state own car factory) since 1960 to 1972, with the 2000 and 2150 cubic engines. The curiosity is that the Alfa Romeo (Italy) itself bought the FNM plant in 1968 and became to develop a new car exclusive to the brazilian market, but besides they bought the plant they still use the FNM brand until the production's end of 102 series and start to produce the type 144.



Launched in the almost same time of Alfetta (type 116) in Italy, both cars shares the major design lines, drawed by the team that will became know as Centro Stile Alfa Romeo. Mechanically the Alfetta is a newer car, with the all-alloy engine used on type 105 and a new Alfa De Dion Tranaxle. The 2300 (Alfa Romeo project type 144) used basically the same mechanical structure of the previous type 102 (cast iron block and rigid rear axle), so the brazilian plant could be used for some more years without too much investments. The 2300 is a much larger car than Alfetta, and has almost the same size of the italian Alfa Sei (6).



The engine:



The performances of this model were great. It has wonderful dynamic properties and that time one of the best scores on acceleration and top velocity in Brazil. The basic information to my car model is (2300 Ti 1979): 149HP SAE, twin Solex 40 ADDHE, 24 mKgf of torque , 1300 kg of weight, 11,7s of 0-100 km/h e 172 km/h of top speed). I think that it was the best choice of a executive saloon in 70s and early 80s for the brazilian market (note that was totally forbidden to import cars in Brasil since 1972 to 1990), and not bad for the international market at all.

I will open another topic for my other cars.

Best Regards from Brazil, Casé
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Regards Nearby!

Hello and welcome. My Wife is from Anapolis, Goias. I have spent some time in your area and have visited Brasilia, Caldas Nova, Goiania, and many other places. During my visit I discovered how great the people, food, and music, I cant wait to go again. I might have to look you up next time we are in Brasil. Now we are living in California, but my wife has her family there. Very nice Alfa's.
Dear Todd,

Yes, Anapolis is a nearby city (-100 miles). I did some jobs there for a big healthcare company. One of ours most important air force interceptor fighter squadron (operating Mirages 2000s) is located in this industrial city (most medicine factories and a Hyundai plant). I went there several times.



Please, when you come here take the opportunity to meet some Brazilian Alfisti! My phone number is +55 (Brazil) 61 (area code) 9224-8399 (mobile).

So, every Alfa lover will be welcome here. We have a solid community in each major brazilian city. Just let me know that I will provide a friendly reception to our foreign friends.

Best Reagards, Casé
 

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Dear Oz3litre,

this is an amazing forum. I am a member of alfaromeobr.com.br , a virtual community in Brazil, that is an e-group with a website and +1000 members. Visit our website. Google Chrome may help you if you don't speak portuguese. Click on the translate button and enjoy it.

This Alfa 2.3 litre engine was a development of the 2 litre 4-cyl twimcam of Alfa type 102 cars. In Brazil the type 102 was produced under licence by the FNM (initially an state own car factory) since 1960 to 1972, with the 2000 and 2150 cubic engines. The curiosity is that the Alfa Romeo (Italy) itself bought the FNM plant in 1968 and became to develop a new car exclusive to the brazilian market, but besides they bought the plant they still use the FNM brand until the production's end of 102 series and start to produce the type 144.



Launched in the almost same time of Alfetta (type 116) in Italy, both cars shares the major design lines, drawed by the team that will became know as Centro Stile Alfa Romeo. Mechanically the Alfetta is a newer car, with the all-alloy engine used on type 105 and a new Alfa De Dion Tranaxle. The 2300 (Alfa Romeo project type 144) used basically the same mechanical structure of the previous type 102 (cast iron block and rigid rear axle), so the brazilian plant could be used for some more years without too much investments. The 2300 is a much larger car than Alfetta, and has almost the same size of the italian Alfa Sei (6).



The engine:



The performances of this model were great. It has wonderful dynamic properties and that time one of the best scores on acceleration and top velocity in Brazil. The basic information to my car model is (2300 Ti 1979): 149HP SAE, twin Solex 40 ADDHE, 24 mKgf of torque , 1300 kg of weight, 11,7s of 0-100 km/h e 172 km/h of top speed). I think that it was the best choice of a executive saloon in 70s and early 80s for the brazilian market (note that was totally forbidden to import cars in Brasil since 1972 to 1990), and not bad for the international market at all.

I will open another topic for my other cars.

Best Regards from Brazil, Casé
Thanks for the info. I would love to visit Brazil one day. We are currently watching Michael Palin's programme about his visit there and it is fascinating. Brazilians seem to be very fun loving people and the country is beautiful.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Planes and Alfas

Bom dia, Case,

I have a FNM 2300 in my 1959 Alfa "2000" Roadster. Apart from some early issues, it is running nicely and has excellent power compared to the original 2000 engine. I have been in touch with Flavio Tiago in Brasil, who also has a 2300, and has been of immense help to me in obtaining parts for my engine.

I will be flying a small airplane from Uruguay up through Brasil back to the USA this coming December. I'm not sure where I will stop for fuel and overnight rest. Perhaps we can meet and I will buy you a drink for your commitment to our beloved Alfas?

I wish it was easier to export a car from Brasil, as I would certainly like to have a late model 2300ti. Some of them are very nicely equipped.

Cheers,
D
Dear DPeterson3,

I think thae we have two passions in common: Planes and Alfas!

I guess that I read about your 2000 Spider restoration some months ago. How a lovely job. If I can help you to find any tricky part (and there are many such of these) you can send me and e-mail or call.

Of course we can meet some Alfa lovers and if you want so, we can meet some experimental plane builders around here.

I made a business plane for a local airline (Cruiser) who operates a several czech Let 410 UVP. Have you heard about this regional-airliner?

I heard about some exported classic cars. Unfortunately, all of ours rare Giulia GTAs were exported. :-(

By the way, I think that it isn't a hard job. I have some connections who import classic cars from USA (in Florida), maybe they can help you to travel a 2300 to USA. Try to call these guys: Advance Miami | Advance Miami

Best Regards, Carlos Garcia
 

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Hallo Casé. Seeing the wonderful pictures of your AR 2300 TI bring back memories of a holiday in Rio and Brasilia. It was back in 1972. As a car nut it was very interesting to see the cars filling the streets of Rio, some models we knew in Europe (VW 1200) and some that looked familiar like an Opel Record/Commodore but with Chevrolet badges and Renault 12 with Ford badges.
But the real culmination was the car/limo that the Rio hotel (Gloria off the Flamingo Park) offered for our return to the airport; an Alfa Romeo 2300 TI looking just like yours, looking all brand new but black and as far as I remember with 5 speed gear lever at the steering wheel.
What an experience.
Erik
PS! As every one wants pictures I include one of me and my Spider 1750 1970 and now sold 156 TS 1999
 

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Hello Alfisti from Brazil
I have one question, how come at you one Alfa 2300 TI 4 (1980) in good condition
It would be cool to buy one and bring to Croatia
I had the opportunity to ride in one as a child, when Santos.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Brazilian experiences.

Hallo Casé. Seeing the wonderful pictures of your AR 2300 TI bring back memories of a holiday in Rio and Brasilia. It was back in 1972. As a car nut it was very interesting to see the cars filling the streets of Rio, some models we knew in Europe (VW 1200) and some that looked familiar like an Opel Record/Commodore but with Chevrolet badges and Renault 12 with Ford badges.
But the real culmination was the car/limo that the Rio hotel (Gloria off the Flamingo Park) offered for our return to the airport; an Alfa Romeo 2300 TI looking just like yours, looking all brand new but black and as far as I remember with 5 speed gear lever at the steering wheel.
What an experience.
Erik
PS! As every one wants pictures I include one of me and my Spider 1750 1970 and now sold 156 TS 1999

Dear Erik,

Where are you from? What a wonderful cars. I just love these two models, but the Spider type 105 is a dream for me. For years I am looking for one Spider that meets my requirements of price :))) and condition. A few months ago I found the beauty bellow (1300 Junior) , but I wasn't fast enough.



About your airport ride I don't think that it was in a 2300. This model was presented in 1974. Maybe you have ride one brand new Alfetta (type 116), that became in production in 1972. What you think? The cars have a very similar shape, but one beside the other they are totally different. But, in fact, since the car you rode 40 years ago has the 5-speed gear lever at the steering column I gess that the car was a FNM JK 2000. The 2300 never had gear lever at the steering.

I stayed at Hotel Gloria once, in 2008. A great hotel, but I can imagine how glamorous it was in 70s! I heard that they are making a general overhaul for the 2014 World Soccer Cup.

Best Regards from the sunny Brazil, Casé
 

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Discussion Starter #15
2300 in Croatia

Hello Alfisti from Brazil
I have one question, how come at you one Alfa 2300 TI 4 (1980) in good condition
It would be cool to buy one and bring to Croatia
I had the opportunity to ride in one as a child, when Santos.
Hello,

you can find a great car (1980-1981-1982) for about US$ 8.000. The last versions of ti4 (1985 and 1986) are more valued than this. But the previous models as 2300 type A (1974-1977), 2300 Ti (1977-1979) ande 2300 type B (1977-1980), in descending order, have much higher prices. The type A in a concours condition maybe would cost about U$ 20.000 or more. :eek:

Best Regards, Casé
 

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Hi again, I'm from Denmark (a small country between Germany and the Scandinavian Peninsula).
I've had my Spider since 2005 when I bought in Munich, Germany, and drove it home on a cold January day. Luckily the heater was very effective. Its a 1750 model but the 1300 are lots of fun, too. The engine needs more revolutions but thrives with them, have a top speed of 165 km/h. and accelerating is quite good. Anyway, high speeds isn't really what a classic Spider is about, its simply lovely to ride open, its involving you in driving in a way that no modern car does and when ever you stop people ask what make it is. If you ask them to look after it while you do an errand they are more than happy.
My ex 156 was my 6th modern Alfa in a row. Best car I ever owned. But as an ex car dealer I know when to sell a car, it was 12,5 years old and done 215k km, so it was time to part. The next owner have to see some years good motoring in it.
My wifes Fiat Punto II was sold at the same time and both were replaced by a second hand Fiat Bravo II 120 TJet I got at a good price. I've just read that the Bravo is introduced on the Brazilian market. It a very good car, nice sporty handling, good performance and economi, it ought to do well.
Erik
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Denmark

Hi again, I'm from Denmark (a small country between Germany and the Scandinavian Peninsula).
I've had my Spider since 2005 when I bought in Munich, Germany, and drove it home on a cold January day. Luckily the heater was very effective. Its a 1750 model but the 1300 are lots of fun, too. The engine needs more revolutions but thrives with them, have a top speed of 165 km/h. and accelerating is quite good. Anyway, high speeds isn't really what a classic Spider is about, its simply lovely to ride open, its involving you in driving in a way that no modern car does and when ever you stop people ask what make it is. If you ask them to look after it while you do an errand they are more than happy.
My ex 156 was my 6th modern Alfa in a row. Best car I ever owned. But as an ex car dealer I know when to sell a car, it was 12,5 years old and done 215k km, so it was time to part. The next owner have to see some years good motoring in it.
My wifes Fiat Punto II was sold at the same time and both were replaced by a second hand Fiat Bravo II 120 TJet I got at a good price. I've just read that the Bravo is introduced on the Brazilian market. It a very good car, nice sporty handling, good performance and economi, it ought to do well.
Erik
Dear Erik,

I know a lot of things about Denmark. When I was a child I used to dream about a travel to Legoland!

By photos, Copenhagen is a lovely city. My cousin lived in Holland (Rotterdam) for 4 years (working for Accenture Consulting) and I did plan a trip to visit her and the northern countries, including Denmark, but it was cancelled. So sad.

You are right! 99,9% a classic car must be used gently. On my own 2300 Ti I never get over 150 km/h. But the moderns.... As the Alfa twincam, the V6 Busso engine is a incredible machine. All of my 3 V6 went over 220 km/h some time.

About the FIAT Bravo, we have this same model here, and I love it. Now we have a Pegeout 206 and a Kia Sportge as our daily use cars.

Alfa Romeo left our market in 2004. Since that time we don't have a official local dealer. AR cars were very very expensive when new. My 156 V6 was sold new for U$ 65K (2003), and my Spider for U$ 70K (1997). Nowadays a KIA Sportage costs U$ 50K, and a Alfa Giulietta will be sold (2013-2014) from U$ 70K and up! Can you imagine this? Our sales taxes and import taxes are the highest in world. Expensive spare parts are a huge problem to mantain our cars in a daily use.

In the other hand our automobile market is very large. This year the forecast is about 4 million new cars (4th larger in the world). The Alfa Comunnity just don´t understend why AR take so much time to come back. :D I dream of a day when I can use an Alfa day by day.

Best Regards, Casé
 

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Hello,

you can find a great car (1980-1981-1982) for about US$ 8.000. The last versions of ti4 (1985 and 1986) are more valued than this. But the previous models as 2300 type A (1974-1977), 2300 Ti (1977-1979) ande 2300 type B (1977-1980), in descending order, have much higher prices. The type A in a concours condition maybe would cost about U$ 20.000 or more. :eek:

Best Regards, Casé

Thanks a lot!
 

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Sorry to hear that your trip to Northern Europe was canceled. Legoland is a fantastic place to visit for kits, we went there when our kits were kits several times, and revisited Legoland with them again last year with them and our grand children last summer. Its been further developed a lot in the intervening 20+ years.
I'm sure that your city, Brasilia, has changed a lot since our visit 40 odd years a go. Already then it was a fantastic and beautiful place.
In Denmark, too, cars are imposed with heavy taxes. If not build in the EU a tariff of 17% is added, then to the retail price 25% VAT is added and then it gets complicated and expensive, the first US$ 15k 105% is added and to the remaining value 180% is; after that low fuel consumption and a number of safety features are beneficed with deductions of tax and heavy fuel consumption is penalized by added tax.
This make an Giulietta cost from US$ 44K (105 HP) to 80K (230HP). A Fiat Panda Classic (old model, but still in production) cost from US$ 15 like many small cars like the new VW UP etc. The now out of production Alfa 159's cost was from US$ 80 up.
I bought my then 2.5 year and 53K KM Bravo for US$ 25K, price new US$ 39
Erik
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Car Prices

Sorry to hear that your trip to Northern Europe was canceled. Legoland is a fantastic place to visit for kits, we went there when our kits were kits several times, and revisited Legoland with them again last year with them and our grand children last summer. Its been further developed a lot in the intervening 20+ years.
I'm sure that your city, Brasilia, has changed a lot since our visit 40 odd years a go. Already then it was a fantastic and beautiful place.
In Denmark, too, cars are imposed with heavy taxes. If not build in the EU a tariff of 17% is added, then to the retail price 25% VAT is added and then it gets complicated and expensive, the first US$ 15k 105% is added and to the remaining value 180% is; after that low fuel consumption and a number of safety features are beneficed with deductions of tax and heavy fuel consumption is penalized by added tax.
This make an Giulietta cost from US$ 44K (105 HP) to 80K (230HP). A Fiat Panda Classic (old model, but still in production) cost from US$ 15 like many small cars like the new VW UP etc. The now out of production Alfa 159's cost was from US$ 80 up.
I bought my then 2.5 year and 53K KM Bravo for US$ 25K, price new US$ 39
Erik
Dear Erik,

One Bravo BRAVO SPORTING DUALOGIC PLUS 1.8 16v new (our top series) has a selling price of U$ 35 thousand. So the price is similar here and in Denmark. I did not expect this. :eek:

Best Regards, Casé
 
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