Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,
I did a search, but all of the threads that came up were to do with disc brakes.
My new to me '63 Giulia spider 1600 (3 shoe drum brakes) has developed an annoying brake squeal on the front passenger side. It doesn't always squeal but usualy does when setting off and braking the first few times. The more I brake the quicker it goes away. If the car rests a while the squeal is back. It is really loud and sounds like metal to metal contact, but after close inspection i can't see anything amiss.
It's kinda taking the fun out of very short trips, any ideas what to look for?
Maybe I can apply some copper grease to the metal brake shoe ends?
Or should I roughen up the drum surface with sandpaper?
Suggestions would be very welcome
Thanks
Nick
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
291 Posts
Nick,
When disk brakes squeal, it is due to vibration of the pad's backing plate against the piston in the caliper. It is possible that your three shoe drums are doing something similar, and lubrication of the metal-to-metal contact points might help. I probably would not use copper grease as a lube unless it is rated for high temperatures (you don't want it melting and running around all over the linings;). A better choice would be wheel bearing grease as used in disc brake setups. And use as little as necessary.
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Jim for your suggestion,
I had another look last night and guess what? it was the driver side and not the passenger side that was squealing! Noises can be difficult to pinpoint.
As soon as I took the drivers side drum off it was obvious that one of the cylinders is leaking onto the lowest shoe.
Just to test I cleaned everything up with brake cleaner and reassembled, the squeal is gone.
Now I need to explore if its just the seals or the cylinder bore which is causing the leak.
Seals are cheap, the cylinder isn't. But I would prefer to do the repair only once.
Maybe it's a good idea to replace the cylinder and if possible rebuild the old one with new seals as a spare? It would be good to have 1 left front, 1 right front and one rear cylinder on the shelf if needed.
Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,460 Posts
Nick, I think you have a two issues working here. You were probably right the first time with the squeel coming from the dry right side. It is not unusual for discs or drums to form a thin layer of rust while sitting. The noise goes away when the shoes or pads scrub them clean after a few applications of brake. This is nothing to worry about. The wet liner is something all together different. Brake clean will not clean up saturated linings no matter what they look like after you try. Take the bad cylinder apart and inspect it for any seal damaging contamination. If it just needs a minor clean up from dirty deposits, a light scuffing with 000 steel wool on your finger should bring it back to life. Put new seals in a wet with brake fluid bore and try this for awhile, like a week of driving. Inspect it and see if there is any sign of leaking again. Even a light misting on the outside of the seals indicates failure. If it leaks change out the cylinder. You probably need a good purging of all the old fluid while you are at it. The wet lining should be changed with a compatible material with the other two at very least if you have some on the shelf, other wise you are operating effctively on only two shoes and will experience uneven braking which is extremely life threatening if they tug to one side. Rick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hi Rick,
thanks for your comments.
i don't think it is a rust thing because when out driving and I have shaken off that squeal, it only takes a 20 min rest to return the squealing when I brake again. So I thought lining contamination could worsen in that 20 min rest?
Anyway I did nothing other than clean the linings between test 1 (loud squeal), and test 2 (no squeal whatsoever).
As you suggest I need some new parts either seals or cylinders and probably linings too.
Hopefully when the leak is gone the squeal will be too. I'll keep you informed.
Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Brake lining contamination

Hi,

From my experience, it is virtually impossible to remove anything other than a very light brake fluid contamination from a soiled lining. A few years ago I used brake cleaner, trichloretheylene & several other nasty fluids on a soiled shoe to no avail. I put the shoe in the oven & the fluid just bubbled out of the material...

Also, I would never mix old & new linings on an axle, if changing one, then I suggest that all linings are replaced.

Just one man's opinion...

Tony
England
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,460 Posts
I agree with Tony 100%. Don't mix linings but if you have a dry one that is on the shelf that you know is the same material then it MIGHT work out ok.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,640 Posts
If one cylinder is leaking, chances are the others are also close / gunged up.

The risk to car / life is not worth the money you save by taking short cuts, Tony knows what he is talking about, brakes are his business & he is the best, but he's too modest to say so directly. (Shameless plug from me)

The best advice I can offer is pull lot apart, check the cylinders as per divot&tralee's advice, if any even look suspicious, get new ones, replace ALL the brake washers and the dust covers & re-line all 6 shoes.

Be careful with linings, local shops often use a woven lining which is designed for servo-assisted light truck brakes - your piddly Spider's weight won't even get them up to operating temperature & they won't bed in.

For the best advice / parts / prices, etc www.alfastop.co.uk - Tony will ship you exactly what you need, right first time & at prices that are probably cheaper than the suppliers in your neck of the woods. He has all the parts in stock, new Master & wheel cylinders, (2 & 3 leading shoe) & even the MZ41 linings the cars ran as new. He's a one-man-band, so may take a day or two to respond to emails if he is out of town.

Ciao
Greig
Sunny South Africa

No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer, plus he drives an ex South African Super !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Tony, and Greig,
my car has been standing more than it was driven for the last couple of years at least. So I am guesstimating that the seals have perished rather than the bores have worn. I am just hoping new seals will seal the system. The cost of a car set of seals from Hein Brand is €66, so its worth a try. If the seals don't work then I'll get new cylinders. Only when the system is leak free will I fit the new linings, they are too expensive to fit and contaminate in the first week of use!
I'll let you know how it works out, the seals get here on monday.
Ciao
Nick
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top