Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have started an intensive restauration of a 2600 spider. I am looking for used Borrani's.
Hereby a photo of my 106 dfd8dbf1-0505-42e6-bacf-0e99b8e4e6ad (1).JPG
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
9,317 Posts
Why do you seek used Borrani?

Experience has taught us that the price of purchasing and restoring used wire wheels will end up costing as much or more than new, and likely end up with an inferior result.

If price is your only concern, there are other wire wheel options for less.


I have started an intensive restauration of a 2600 spider. I am looking for used Borrani's.
Hereby a photo of my 106 View attachment 1562260
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
DPeterson3;8403282Experience has taught us that the price of purchasing and restoring used wire wheels will end up costing as much or more than new said:
I second this opinion.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,078 Posts
Heck, that looks like a very major restoration!
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Does anyone know if there any differences between the RW3582 wheels that are listed for the 2000 and the RW3906 wheels that are listed for the 2600 that would affect use of the former on a 2600? They're both listed in the Boranni catalogs as 165x400 with 52RC hubs, but the catalogs don't provide other information. I bought a used set of the RW3582s and hubs about a dozen years ago and finally have convinced my wife she should let me install them on her car (she objected for low these many years as they're painted instead of chromed and she wasn't sure she'd like the look), but I wanted to make sure I wouldn't have any issues with the install before going through all of the expense for new tires and the hassle of mounting the hubs and spacers and completing the install.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,801 Posts
Hi Rick, I checked an old copy of "Register of Italian Oddities" and unfortunately do not see your RW3582 wheels listed. But based on the information in your above post, I am able to discern one main difference. The RW3906 Wheels that came on both the Two-Liter and the 2600, as I understand are "Record" which indicates that the rims are aluminum alloy instead of the steel rims that came with your wheels -if they were indeed once chrome plated.

No worries, freshly chrome plated wheels and new chrome or stainless steel spokes would look amazing and would surely be well worth the trouble! The stock wheels measure 5" between (inside) the tire bead; just one thing to check.

I am well pleased with my experience purchasing and restoring used Borrani wire wheels. Many folks prefer N.O.S. parts or used factory parts over reproduction parts. It is nice that you can purchase new wire wheels, now from C.M.R S.p.A Servizio Techico but I still prefer the period Borrani wire wheels. I think it is cool to see the original Borrani stamping on the rims and the year code matching my car on the back, which nobody else sees. Historically speaking, chrome plating and rubber products are not two Italian strong points. New chrome wheel hubs and spokes will likely require refinishing sooner or later. I've seen like new Borrani wire wheels on the show field at Amelia Island, with morning dew and red rust oozing out from the chrome plated spoke ends and nipples. Stainless steel spokes and nipples may be a better way to go but then galling is a potential issue during building that requires a proper lubricant.

When purchasing my pre-owned wheels and hubs 20 years ago; new was not an option! The Borrani wire wheels were rebuilt by Cork Adams of 'Precision Wire Wheels' at a cost then of $500 per wheel plus shipping both ways. They remain straight and true after all these years and several thousand of miles -not to mention still look fantastic! I remember Cork saying then to be glad they were not chrome plated rims because then they were $625 each.

When buying used wire wheels and splined hubs it is important to make sure that all splines are in good condition. The splines in a curve should be uniform like this 'VVVVV' inside the wheel hubs and outside the splined drive. Worn splines would have an appearance like this 'NNNNN' worn on an angle but without the third leg of the N. A good used hub was $450, twenty years ago. PWS has been bought out by 'Brightworks Restoration' in Ohio, as I found on Ferrari Chat by doing a quick Google search. You definitely want to use an experienced wire wheel re-builder.

Long ago I wrote an article about doing a wire wheel conversion on a Touring Roadster. I just did a Google search but could not find it; so much for immortality... I think there is some information in the article that will be helpful to you. Things like the rear wheel studs will most likely need to be shortened (or replaced, if you want to take the axle half shafts out) so that the studs don't prevent the wheel hub from properly seating on the 'flange' of the spiders -eliminates the splined hub like what is used on front end. If the wheel studs interfere with the hub, preventing it from sitting flush on the flange, rapid wear of the splines is to be expected.

Mark
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
9,317 Posts
I found getting a detailed and informed answer from Boranni to be impossible, so just gave up and bought what they recommended. At the time I bought mine, they listed different numbers for the 2000 and 2600, as well as different numbers if you bought a set of four vs a set of five!

I suppose it is possible that there might be different wheels for use on four-drum cars vs four-disc cars. The drums have an odd recessed center, and of course a very large OD, that the wire wheels must fit around. A four-disk 2600 might allow for a different lacing with more strength, as compared to the 2000. I am guessing there, so I wouldn't go chasing that info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,801 Posts
The CMR/Borrani factory wire wheel drawing shows a wire wheel (RW3906) with a disc brake on the front half of the wheel and a drum brake on the rear half of the same wheel. Those Italians are pretty darn clever and economical.

IMAG0050.jpg

You can see in the above drawing how short the lug studs (#6) and lug nuts (#9) are so that the wheel hub rests on the flange or CONE as shown on the drawing.

Mark
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
9,317 Posts
The drawing also appears to show a different wheel hub and lacing pickup points for the two types of brakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,801 Posts
The drawing also appears to show a different wheel hub and lacing pickup points for the two types of brakes.
Up front, a car with wire wheels should have a proper splined hub. On the rear end, the factory (Alfa) used 'spiders' or bolt on splined hubs. I had not noticed different lacing pickup points and suspect it may be caused by minor(?) differences between the splined hubs and spiders. It is odd that the drawing shows different thicknesses for the hubs, front to rear. I believe mine are all the same and interchangeable.

Mark
 

·
Push hard and live
Joined
·
9,317 Posts
Up front, a car with wire wheels should have a proper splined hub. On the rear end, the factory (Alfa) used 'spiders' or bolt on splined hubs. I had not noticed different lacing pickup points and suspect it may be caused by minor(?) the differences between the splined hubs and spiders. It is odd that the drawing shows different thicknesses for the hubs, front to rear. I believe mine are all the same and interchangeable.

Mark
Mark,

More conjecture from me...

The picture you provided actually notes “front” and “rear” in Italian. As one is disk and the other drum, we can assume this drawing is for an early 2600.

The drawing has reference lines drawn, so we can see that the spoke angles and mounting points are different for the front and rear. I’m guessing due to the constraints imposed by the very large drum.

My 2000 uses the same wheel front and back. I’d bet the all-disk 2600 uses all same wheels as well, and a different spider for the rear than is used on the drums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Thanks for the detail Mark. My RW3582 wheels are Record also, which is why they are, and are staying, painted. And they have a year code stamping of 7/64, the year of the car, which I also think would be cool if they get used. As our 2600 is an early one with the drum/disc combo I'll have to see if the wheels - which look to be and measure out the same for all 5 - will fit over the drums. The prior owner of the wheels said he had used them on his 2600, but I never saw either the car or the mounted wheels, so I'm taking that with a grain of salt. The wheels did, however, come with a pair of aluminum spacers, and I'm assuming those may be to enable the rear wheels to clear the drums. I"ll let you know what I find if and when I get them mounted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,801 Posts
Rick,

One thing is for sure; your wife's car will look better with wire wheels! My preference for wire wheels would be for: polished alloy rims (Record), chrome plated rims and then painted rims. I'd still prefer painted wire wheel rims over the stock disc wheels.

I am unfamiliar with your RW3582 wheels and don't have any information on them. Would you post pictures of your wire wheels?

Earlier you wrote: "I bought a used set of the RW3582s and hubs about a dozen years ago and finally have convinced my wife she should let me install them on her car (she objected for low these many years as they're painted instead of chromed and she wasn't sure she'd like the look). If the wheels were chrome plated or painted, they were likely non-Record (steel rim) wheels although it would be possible to paint over alloy rims. This would probably be done if the chrome on the spokes and hubs was failing. If your wheels do have alloy rims (Record) they could be stripped and rebuilt with new spokes and re-chromed hubs.

Did you by chance purchase these wheels from Tom Sanor in Georgia?

Here is a link to the wire wheel conversion article I could not find earlier:

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1900-2000-2600-1950-1968/306513-wire-wheel-conversion-kits-info-request.html


Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Hi Mark -

Here's a few pictures of one of the wheels and the related hub. Let me know if you'd like to see any other shots or angles.

I don't remember the name of the seller. I do recall it was from someone in the South - GA or FL sticks in mind - so it may well have been Tom Sanor if he had a set he was selling 15 years ago or so.

Rick
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,801 Posts
Rick, those wheels look great and I suspect can be used as-is. The inner wheel hub splines and the outer splines in the 'spiders' look like new! Spiders are typically used on the rear axle. I feel that the front wire wheels should be mounted on true splined hubs, not spiders. That said, Tom an engineer, planned to use spiders at all four corners -until I located a complete set of wheels, Borrani knock offs (missing a center cap or two) and hubs at Milano Spares.

Here is a set of smaller (type 42) splined hubs (shown top) and spiders (shown bottom):
splined_hubsT-42.jpg

I believe Franco was having Alfa Script knock off nuts made up in a type 42 hub size; I don't know if they are available in a type 52 -do you already have the knock off nuts?
borrani T42-2.jpg

I lube my splined hubs with a little anti-seize compound before installing the wheels, hopefully to prevent spline wear.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I do have a few sets of the generic RB octagonal nuts. I've occasionally seen sets of Alfa script 2 eared nuts in 52mm size for sale, but hadn't bothered to purchase them since I didn't know if the wheels would ever get used. I'll now start keeping my eyes open in case I come across a decent set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,315 Posts
Hi,

I'm quite surprised to see, on the pictures of Rick, that there is "volcano" on the exterior side of the rim :

IMG_1298.jpg

Here is a picture of a 1959 Borrani 165X400 from a AR 1959 2000 Spider.
You will see that there is no "volcano" on the exterior side of the rim (sorry for the photo that is taken from the back of the wheel)

P1060429 copie.jpg

The Rick's wheels are from 1964.
The today wheels produced by Borrani have these "volcanoes".

Does anyone know if the presence of these "volcanoes" is related to the date of production or anything else?

Serge
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top