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Discussion Starter #1
Jeez. Got the air-con and blower back together and started her up on Friday. Blower hot-cold flap seemed to work properly so one victory. I parked the car and this afternoon, went to start it up again (so I can re install the firewall, wipers, etc) and no crank!!. The lights dim but nothing else.
Very frustrating. I cannot find a forum for this (internet working slow this evening and booting me out after a few minutes) so I thought I would put it here. The battery is charged but I just don't know enough about this car and don;t know what to best check. Is there a safety switch (brake, auto trans shifter) that might be the issue and if not, how do I best check the starter directly?

Many thanks.:confused in Beeton
 

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If battery truly good and lights dim when you turn key to start you are getting a current draw. What is voltmeter reading do when you go to start position.

Are you really sure you have good battery?
 

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When you turn the key to the crank position, the headlights should go out and come back on when you release the key to the run position.
 

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Do you have G151 big round connector that goes through false firewall reconnected? If so and a good battery, starter should crank. You can test starter directly by disconnecting G151 and locating pin 1 in outer circle of pins and apply 12v directly to pin 1 and starter will work if starter and power supply good.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I did reconnect the large connector and also checked the fit to make sue the ring was tight. The lights do go "off" when trying to crank. I will check the conector again. There is also the smaller round connector. Will try that as well and then the starter pin. Will also check the block fitting connections on wither side of the firewall. I see that the wiring connectors are sized for the terminals but will check them again in case they are the issue.
Will report back findings.

Thanks.
 

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My sympathies. Just replaced the heater core in our 164, but ever since we took the wiper motor out, we've had intermittent starting/running problems. At least we have crank! Tomorrow we'll see if we have spark...

It's getting cold over here (Eastern Oregon), so just in time to get the car back together with heat! Thank you so much for the detailed instrux on how to do the job. By the way, has anyone else had to trim the replacement heater core plastic flanges so it would fit? And thanks for the info on the Saab blower door. I kind of broke the lever that controls the door, we glued it and its OK for the moment. Also, other people broke and then glued the plastic bits that the metal latches snap onto. Oh the joys of aging plastic and professional mechanics! This car had ONLY been worked on by the dealer.

This is our first time into the blower and heater core, and we couldn't have done it without the Forum.

THANKS GUYS!!

Veronica
 

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No, the cores are just a easy slide in slide out fit, I think just about everyone breaks the plastic bits first time, it's usually rushing that breaks them, you will find most dealers do not even drive the brand of cars they sell, well that is what I have found in Australia, I think a dealer should really have enthusiasm about the cars they sell and get mechanics that understand the cars beyond the basics.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The tabs break (I broke the left one) because of the twisting action in trying to remove the blower box. Learned from that mistake so the second time (fogot to add the clips to the plastic blower halves) I used a flat blade screwdriver, a long one, to seperate the tab from the body enough so that it could be pulled out enough. The left one I hot-glued nto place after I installed the blower. Should stay in place.
I will recheck all connections at the firewall again and report findings.
 

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just because: the tabs can be kept separate from the alum locking clips by inserting an old credit card or similar in between them and this all but eliminates the breakage. Second, i recently did mine and had a wonky volt meter afterward. I dabbled with the large pigtail and sorted it by reseating the connector. When it stops raining here, I'll pull the pigtail apart and go after it with contact cleaner and such.

All I was changing was the blower motor but I'm confident the heater core will start to leak in mid Jan. Ciao, chris
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Now starts but...Cannot find a decent wiring digram for a 95 164. In short: (no pun) I re and re the blower motor to fix the flap. Fix took but wound up with a no crank situation 2 days later (had started the first day). Just checked the connections and I believe the 2nd (smaller) round harness was loose. Now she starts but I have a "check engine" light. Cleaned all the connections again on both round connectors and also on jumper block.
Seems to idle o.k. but light is still on. The only thing I could think of is the connections at the black jumper box. Perhaps missed one? I don't have any loose wires. The terminals are sized for the connectors so I can't see mixing any up. Just in case, the connections are: (left hand drive)
On the left of the engine side, 2x large black and one redgain, these will NOt fit the right side terminal as they are smaller than the terminal so no mix up.
On the opposite side of the left terminal, one black wire.
On the right (engine) side, 2 very large black connectors, one thin red one, 2 slightly larger ones. On the opposite side, 2x red connectors. To the right of the jumper box are 4x ground wires. Hoping someone out there has their shroud off and can verify these for me so I don;t waste hours poking around for nothing.
Adding pictures just in case.
Once this is dealt with, on to the stripped wiper arm...

Many thanks.
 

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what code flashes out when you invoke the diagnostic routine? remove key, insert key, turn to run position (run only, not start) and stomp down hard all the way to the floor the gas pedal, 5 times in 4 seconds. Then read out the flashing 'check engine' light
 

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This is not related, but upon seeing those pictures of the top of the firewall, take a quick check under that coolant tank fastener closest to the suspension strut. A crack sometimes forms at that screw hole. It should be welded up if you have one there (it can run both ways, ie, toward the strut and also down toward the engine). I welded mine up with a washer as hole reinforcement.
 

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what code flashes out when you invoke the diagnostic routine? remove key, insert key, turn to run position (run only, not start) and stomp down hard all the way to the floor the gas pedal, 5 times in 4 seconds. Then read out the flashing 'check engine' light
Here is test procedure for 24v models:

Alfa 164 Motronic M1.7 Self-Diagnosis


If you want 24v wiring diagrams and shop manuals I think I already mentioned CarDisc International Ltd. - Alfa Romeo Manuals, Giulietta Manuals, Giulia Manuals, GTV Manuals, Spider Manuals, American Austin & American Bantam 164 DVD.

You need both 94 manuals and 95 supplemental manuals for the 95 to get all wiring diagrams and they are both on the DVD.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks Goats, Alfisto and all for the test procedure. I was not aware of the steps. I will have a look later this morning and get back.
Goats, I see you are a military cat. Very swank uniform. The kittens must like it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
O.K. Now it's getting a bit strange out there. I started teh car today (left the battery un-hooked overnight). Read the codes; 4444 so no fault found. Started her up and no "check engine". Yay. This evening, I went for a test drive and apart from a bit of an exhaust smell (the cause of which I cannot locate), all seemed fine BUT after I got back, I decided to check the air-temperature with a digital meter. Here's the odd thing: The left half of the outlets are about 10f warmer than the right half. The door is closing as the sound changes but no real change in temperature.
The left-center outlet as reading 103f and the right was 93f both readings taken from point "zero". Is there yet another flap behind the center consold that controls left-right mixing?

Also posting this in the "door flap repair" thread.

Thanks all. Hope to have this sorted out soon so I can take my "patient" wife on one last drive before putting the alfa away for the season. She still hasn't quite forgiven me for the "Biturbo" parked and waiting to be rescued in my half of the garage.
 

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Not a BiTurbo! I am so glad my son sold his last two and all the parts to dude in VT and they have left the building (his). I still have a low mileage A/T for one of his parts Biturbo Masers under my water heater in garage. Do you need one?
 

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I think you're the only person in Alfa history to measure the temperature from the center vent and compare left with right! The differential in temp seems reasonable given the fact that the HVAC is drawing cooler air from the right side of the dash. If you take the center vent diffuser off you will not find any other flap other than the mixing one way deep inside.

Regarding the exhaust smell, the source may be a periodic oil drip on one of the exhaust downpipes, or, one of the cigar seals on the spark plugs cavities may be leaking (one drop of oil on a hot spark plug will produce that awful rancid smell). Making sure the gasket above the false firewall seals tightly against the hood will minimize engine compartment smells in the cabin. As others have reported, running the right sized backer rod in that gasket to "fatten" it up helps.

Sounds like you cleared your other problem. As you discovered unhooking the battery for a good length of time clears faults stored in the ecu.
 

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you know, this is weird. Not the temp probe measuring thing (yea it's odd but that's be like the pot/kettle thing) - I notice a lot less scent of exhaust in the cabin as well. Now its either got to do with the hood pad no longer being in place or one of the 2 seals up front, the one for the false firewall or...the big oval one on the air intake for the blower. I do know the foamy seal between the blower housing and the big plastic air sucker inner is suspect and I need some HVAC sealing tape to do it right. Odd stuff this is....BTW Pinino, nice analysis on the temp differences and cool air intake and such - perhaps just the differences in how far the warmish air has to travel before it can be measured for temp. John knows this stuff as he's an HVAC designer....ciao, jc
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yep, A Bi-Turbo 425. Ran well but needed the turbo gaskets replaced so I yanked the engine and then the kids got older... needed to coach soccer...the engine is still on the stand 7 years later. The Alfa was a replacement as I wanted an Italian car.
As for the temp thing, not sure what Pinino meant by "I think you're the only person in Alfa history to measure the temperature from the center vent and compare left with right!" hoping that was a comment on my detail and not on my lack of common sense.
I am going to rebuld the hood gasket (got a bit crushed and cracked) and see if that helps.
P.S. Had a look at a 430 Bi-turbo in Vermont this summer during our road trip. Normally a beautiful car but this sample was just sad. Maybe it was the one Alfisto mentioned!
Will report back.
 
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