Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
The Bonhams Siata was Zagato built, correct? If so, it must be one of the very few cars with a pre-war body from Zagato that is not an Alfa. I think it needs a full restoration but due to rarity this is a good deal in my book.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
I thought that the 208S was based on the original '50s Otto Vu? was this the same car as was advertised with Steve McQueen ownership? Does anyone have a chassis No?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I thought that the 208S was based on the original '50s Otto Vu? was this the same car as was advertised with Steve McQueen ownership? Does anyone have a chassis No?
Se above post. The Siata 208 spider is S/N BS 519. Yes they are realted to the Otto Vu.

I don't have the S/N of the Zagato bodied 1937 Siata 750.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
I have to add though that every car with Steve McQueen provenance has been doing DOUBLE or more than other similar cars... That has for sure something todo with it.. But Rapi 8v Fiats are doing 400000 USD now.. minimum.. Siatas can do more. Spider for sure and Balbo and Motto absolutly. Ugly body though and Long wheel base ... not so sure... A beutiful body and the rarity of it decides the price in my book.. But, some of the LWB cars are not attractive .. So I say.. beeuty.. beuty.. beuty decides.
A Fiat 8V and a Ferrari 166 are comparable... Depending on race history and body they SHOULD be on parity but.. no no no Ill take the 8V... ( WELL.. depends on the history and beuty beuty...)

Niklas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
I have to add though that every car with Steve McQueen provenance has been doing DOUBLE or more than other similar cars... That has for sure something todo with it.. But Rapi 8v Fiats are doing 400000 USD now.. minimum.. Siatas can do more. Spider for sure and Balbo and Motto absolutly. Ugly body though and Long wheel base ... not so sure... A beutiful body and the rarity of it decides the price in my book.. But, some of the LWB cars are not attractive .. So I say.. beeuty.. beuty.. beuty decides.
A Fiat 8V and a Ferrari 166 are comparable... Depending on race history and body they SHOULD be on parity but.. no no no Ill take the 8V... ( WELL.. depends on the history and beuty beuty...)

Niklas

I've yet to see documentation that BS523 <is> the ex McQueen car and even if it is, so what? When McQueen owned a Siata Spider, he put a Ferrari badge on the nose and told everybody it was his"little Ferrari"
The thing is, the Siata is a much better driver, maybe not as fast in a straight line but a much nicer car to drive.

Your friendly carmudgeon
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
132 Posts
The Bonhams Siata was Zagato built, correct? If so, it must be one of the very few cars with a pre-war body from Zagato that is not an Alfa. I think it needs a full restoration but due to rarity this is a good deal in my book.

Mike
Hi Mike,
The Bonhams Siata was fully restored and in excellent condition. It had been shown at Pebble Beach a few years ago and was still sharp.
I loved the car, but the pedal box was so small and my feet so large that I would have had to drive it barefoot.
I thought it was fabulous and the price, while too high for me, was not unreasonable given the restoration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Darn, the only thing I did not accomplish was to go to the B&B tent at the Quail. I talked and drunk way to much ... Busy day.

That little Zagato Siata was one of my favorite cars up there. I think it was offered before the auction for less. You snooze, you loose.

It was great meeting you up there, Donald!

By the way, I drive all my cars barefeet ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Siata? Zagato?

It is not exactly clear ... or proven ... that the very interesting and historic prewar Fiat 500 that sold, touted for many years as "Siata" and also touted for many years as "Zagato" is actually either of those things. The Fiat 500 engine has a Siata cylinder head and that may be as far as it goes for a true connection to Siata? I included the car in my Siata listings for many years because I believed the claims that were made when the car came to the USA. Others have also written glowingly of its "Siata" origins and "Zagato" bodywork. However, conflicting information has been noted that may indicate the car was built by someone other than Siata, and the body built perhaps by someone other than Zagato. The auctioneers were informed well before the sale and the new owner is also aware of my thinking as we spoke at Pebble. He really likes the car, regardless of the monikers put on it and that is very nice.

If you have a copy of Curami's "La Sport", take a look at Crivellari for a bit of possible enlightenment. Or perhaps not. The car shown is not this one as the chassis number differs by a bit according to the research I've done. So, it may not be "Crivellari" but something else?

It is a great little car, despite Stu's apparent amazement at the dollars per horsepower. We have yet to describe the early history of this car. That must be done before we place strong labels on the "who" and "where" of the car's origins. Placing labels that might not be correct will be very distracting to doing the research needed to learn what the car really is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Steve McQueen & Siata

Edit:

I should have said here as a prelude, "Anecdotal evidence tells us that Steve McQueen reportedly told a former owner of BS*523* that he owned a Siata and he seemingly thought it was the same car."

So, we assume that ...

End edit.

Steve McQueen had a Siata 208S. Anecdotal accounts tend to support the claim that BS*523 is the car. No period paper has been produced that I am aware of, but the anecdotal accounts from years ago have been quite convincing. Enough so that I list the car as "ex-Steve McQueen". I owned the original engine for a number of years and offered it to the current owner of the car at reasonable money. He did not step up and buy it. Twice! So, the car still has a replacement engine. I sold the engine (BS*109) to someone else as part of a package deal and he paid more for it than I'd asked from the owner of the car! The new owner of the engine also offered it to the owner of the car. That didn't work out because the owner seemingly wanted the engine as a virtual gift and he was exceedingly rude when he couldn't have it for next to nothing, just as he had been rude with me. So, the engine is still sitting here in my house, but is owned by someone else. It will be leaving shortly. The future owner of the car will probably want to try to purchase it one day because the current owner is no longer eligible to have it so far as I know and I am in complete agreement with that position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Thanks, John for sharing a bit of history of the Fiat/ Siata car. I am happy that the new owner knows it and appreciates it. I am bummed that I really missed it "in the flesh". A fantastic car, nevertheless.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Steve McQueen had a Siata 208S. Anecdotal accounts tend to support the claim that BS*523 is the car. No period paper has been produced that I am aware of, but the anecdotal accounts from years ago have been quite convincing. Enough so that I list the car as "ex-Steve McQueen". I owned the original engine for a number of years and offered it to the current owner of the car at reasonable money. He did not step up and buy it. Twice! So, the car still has a replacement engine. I sold the engine (BS*109) to someone else as part of a package deal and he paid more for it than I'd asked from the owner of the car! The new owner of the engine also offered it to the owner of the car. That didn't work out because the owner seemingly wanted the engine as a virtual gift and he was exceedingly rude when he couldn't have it for next to nothing, just as he had been rude with me. So, the engine is still sitting here in my house, but is owned by someone else. It will be leaving shortly. The future owner of the car will probably want to try to purchase it one day because the current owner is no longer eligible to have it so far as I know and I am in complete agreement with that position.

Thank you, John for clarifying that.
I've been through a similar situation with an owner who didn't think it was worth it to buy an engine for his car. Now, suddenly, the prices of these cars has reached a point where having a correct type of engine- even if it's not the correct serial number- is important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Matching numbers?

I thought it would have been pretty evident from my posting about the car, but to answer a PM query, Siata 208S N. BS523 "ex-Steve McQueen" is not "matching numbers". Meaning, it does not have its originally numbered engine. It does have a correct style of engine, however, and is not the only similar car to have lost its original engine at one time. There was a time when it was not considered important, but times have changed and not all for the better! Technically, none of the 208S cars have "matching numbers" when it comes to the engines because they were numbered in a different series. To my way of thinking, refitting engines to their original cars is nice and seems historically tidy, but it can actually be misleading. If a car has spent the majority of its life without its original engine, that time "without" could still be an historically important time that should be acknowledged and perhaps even celebrated. "Matching numbers" can tend to gloss over the fact that, at one time, the engines were not matching and were perhaps even quite different in specification to the original. In this case, it seems that the car never had an American V8 installed but simply had the original Siata 208S engine replaced with another from another car, perhaps in the early 1960's?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Interesting what is going on with the 8v Fiat and Siata.
I just happen to have a pair of seats from one, same as in the McQueen car but nicer.
Original green leather, some ware but they are 1953. I have had them since the 70's.
Leather is In very good condition but the foam is falling apart.
could be for sale but trying to figure out their value..
Ron

[email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Hi Ron,

Please have a look on the underside of the seat bottom. A few very early seats had the chassis number hand-painted on the bottom side. On BS*503 there was the number in red without anything obscuring it. On BS*504, there was red paint for the number that was then covered by black paint, either from Siata or by a subsequent owner. I've seen plenty of other seats that have no numbers so this is not a sure thing!

John



The seats are essentially the same as those used in the late Motto-bodied Siata 300BC cars as well. I am in need of a seat for ST*450*BC but have planned to make one. It will probably take about three days work when I get around to it.

Also, I've edited my posting #15 to give a more precise introduction to the statement that I made in August of 2008.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top