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Discussion Starter #1
Just to let you guys know. I called out BAT on what was not known or otherwise implied.. the high bidder bought the car. Not true. The bidder owns the 5% fee.. that is all ..BAt is now screening every comment I make positive or negative about a listing. I am persona non grata.. It must pass through a "committee" from my take on a car (post) that is purposefully encouraging to their enterprise. .. some of my posts take days. Just so you know.. Basically they filter anything I have to say and none of what put me in the box was anything but the truth. I bought a car on BAT and know first hand. I post here because it is wher most real expensive cars show.up and interest is... Other forums it's lost.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
HUH? Are you talking about Tom Zat's car?

NO.. no interest and I've known Tom personally for over 35 years...You didn't see me comment.. It's all the other BS I am filtered through. Just so you know, There is not as much transparency like a FLAG as you think. There is a "HOT" list.. We contribute to their success for FREE... They stick it in my *** when I call out the truth. Sue me, BAT
 

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I’m not familiar with your observations. Care to share?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
They aren't observations they are experiences.. I am on a "watch' list .. NEVER flagged for ANYTHING that was against the rules. I simply told someone if they didn't like the car they didn't have to buy it ..but give up their 5% commission.. I've been censored or screened ever since. Instant postings don't exist in my world.. It takes sometimes days
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Buying a car on BAT is just crazy. Just as bad as eBay, and you pay more.
I didn't start this thread to condemn or praise BAT.. That's another forum. I just want folks too know there is a pecking order to their system and I'm not at the top for the reasons I have noted because I thought timeliness was important on posts there and to be screened is really unwarranted..
 

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@divotandtralee , to help us follow what you are saying, maybe post your username and a link to your BaT profile page? Link to some examples?

I do think they have taken their site too far away from helping the little guy find a cool car and are now inflating the market. I’ve contemplated perhaps starting a more grassroots version focused on more affordable cars like where they started .
 

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I’ve noticed some of my, rare, posts can take a day to appear. Others, instantaneous. I’ve wondered about that.
 

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so are you saying that a buyer can renig on a deal and just pay the 5% leaving the seller in the lurch
 

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I too feel your pain. Just last month I used the contact seller feature, with a message that went something like this, “in the event your car doesn’t meet reserve, would you be interested in some sort of trade?” Never heard anything back from the seller, fast forward, auction closes, reserve not met, I posted a comment to the seller on the public side pretty much restating if there was any interest in trading please contact me. The post was immediately displayed, only to disappear just as fast. Never gave it much thought until I posted a comment about a video of a Vespa running and smoking. In good nature, I posted a light hearted comment, “that I could almost smell it,” referencing the distinct smell of a 2 stroke engine. That post too quickly disappeared. So I totally understand what you are saying. I have even bought two cars on BAT, but I guess once you post something that dismays them, you become a second class citizen there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
so are you saying that a buyer can renig on a deal and just pay the 5% leaving the seller in the lurch
They (Bat) have nothing to do with the "sale" being consummated at the end of the auction. Gone ..DONE.. no way to talk to. The only way you know for sure you were high bidder is the INSTANTLY debited 5% fee from your credit card. After that you and the seller are on their own with only this sketchy blurb in "learn how it works"

"The transaction for a vehicle won on BaT is between the buyer and the seller. At the close of auction, the winning bidder and seller will receive each other’s contact information via email. We recommend that the seller send the buyer a photocopy of the title and a bill of sale prior to the buyer sending payment, and we recommend a wire transfer."

Unknowing sellers THINK they have a contract (They have NOTHING of a sort) and follow the RECOMMENDATION above. Smart buyers know better. . In my case I had the $405 commission gone before i even spoke to the seller who was all prepped to ship the car and me wire money.. I said not so fast. If the car is what you represented it to be I will drive it home from 150 miles away and I will bring a bank check for $8100 and pay for the car after a PPI. He wasn't miffed but he knew I meant I would walk if the car was not close to what it was presented on BaT. It all worked out very well after a short test drive and PPI AFTER I had won the auction. The key is there is NO CONTRACT PERIOD... if a buyer is willing to eat the 5% commission to file it as saving more heart-ache by taking on a car that is a piece of crap then he can walk and there isn't a damned thing the seller can do about it. I suppose he could try to work down the list of underbidders to find a live one but I have nothing on how that might work. A few cars have been relisted with this scenario but it isn't widely known what the circumstances were why the original deal fell through.. It is not binding like a Gooding or RM auction who hold titles to their wares... BaT is a dating service and for not the comment section they would be lost..
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
@divotandtralee , to help us follow what you are saying, maybe post your username and a link to your BaT profile page? Link to some examples?

I do think they have taken their site too far away from helping the little guy find a cool car and are now inflating the market. I’ve contemplated perhaps starting a more grassroots version focused on more affordable cars like where they started .
Nah.. I don't make a habit of trashing anything unless I would be a serious bidder which is an effort to keep the enthusiasm on a car I want low. Call it price suppression by creating an aura of unanswered nit-picks.. and I've only bid on one car so you won't find me trash talking about originality or some pompous spew about badges or details on a car if I have no skin in the game .. Believe me I have more than contributed my share of corrections and glowing observations to make BAT a ton of money .. Then I opened up the Genie bottle on the rules of the auction and they didn't like it so they screen everything I post. It's not an ego thing with me .. It is an ethics thing.
 

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I recently got a painful, and expensive, lesson in auctioning a car the old-fashioned way. The unavoidable truth is that if a buyer or seller is not totally aware of how it all works, they’ll be disappointed by the outcome. Caveat Emptor. Applies equally to seller.

Having said that, I’m ok with the process BAT offers. It seems more efficient AND effective than other methods. So long as one knows the rules, it’s OK.

Wish I’d sold my last car via BAT.
 

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I'd like to hear the rest of the story, Don.

BaT is a market maker. They know it. We know it. They're going to do what ever they can to drive up prices and buyer excitement. Anyone who thinks it's an open forum for ideas is missing the obvious. It's a perfect auctioneer's world, where they get to shut off all the unfavorable noise and get people to pay huge bucks for cars that they haven't seen, much less driven. I suspect that many of the big dollar buyers are men who haven't even driven an example of the car that they are buying, but are simply in love with the looks. The genius of BaT is that they get us enthusiasts, who are always tripping over ourselves to show how smart we are about our favorite cars, to contribute the copy that they cannot write, without paying a penny for it. Wow.

I am really sorry to hear about what happened to Rick. He is one of the honest ones in the Alfa world, a world where honesty is in short supply. It may be that Rick is blunt, but sometimes honesty is blunt. BaT is diminished in my eyes for losing Rick's voice.

P.S. Rick = divotandtralee
 

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There is a concept referred to as an "ideal", or "perfect" market. It is a process of exchange where both the buyer and seller are in possession of all possible knowledge and understanding. In this environment, we hypothesize that the price that results is at that perfect point of balance between supply and demand.

Thus far, I think BAT offers a more "perfect" market than the other alternatives. This is a step in the right direction. A wise business person would recognize that we are living in a world where all information is moving more quickly, and with greater access than before. So, rather than hide from that process, such as the old-model physical auction houses, BAT is attempting to be good and what is going to happen anyway. That's smart business.

If I am correct on that point, I hope they don't fall into the retrograde move of trying to prevent information, or even impede it. Both buyers and sellers will more willingly come to an ideal market, whereas any sniff of putting the thumb on the scales will eventually reduce participation.

BAT makes their money by the volume of successful transactions. Fluffing the product to get a slightly higher price will work against them if it results in fewer sales.

I think they know their own formula, and are not likely to do much censoring. So far, I just think their system is glitchy.
 

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Viewed purely as an alternative to old-model auction houses, BaT is an improvement, I agree, if only because it takes away the boozy environment of the auction tent. And the folks at BaT are certainly smart about old cars.

But I am not persuaded that it's anything like a "perfect market," in the sense that economists use the term. A market for used cars without physical inspections and test drives is not well informed. And do we really know the extent to which BaT censors comments, or does not?
 
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