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Discussion Starter #1
Oh, shoot. "We knew it would be bad, but we didn't think it would be this bad"

Those were the ominous first words from the guys at Rowe & Sons when my car came back from the blaster.

I won't bore you too much with yet more pics of rust holes, but here are some of the more entertaining ones, including:
  • driver's side sill "repair" and lovely floor lace pattern;
  • driver's side front wing; and
  • driver's side rear wing "repair".
It appears that in the mists of time while sorting out some accident damage someone decided that a few strips of steel and lots of bog were a good rust repair that they might as well do while they were at it. The body filler guy was an artist - until all the bog was chipped and blasted off this car looked just like a GT Junior.

There is not enough money in the world to pay for fabrication of every bit that needs fixing - basically if it was ever exposed to water, it's got holes in it.

So, my options range from:
  • cut out the chassis number and weld it into a new body shell (e.g. a Classic Alfa one) - when does a repair become a replacement?; through
  • replace virtually every panel with new repros; and
  • selectively repair the worst bits with second-hand panels; to
  • give up and find a new car.
I'll listen to any opinion offered if it helps me work this out and find an answer - preferably one that gets my beloved car back on the road in good shape.
 

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Hi Gavin.

Good morning from Sydney Australia.
Your pictures show nothing unusual about 105s

Im sure I just read somewhere about removing a chassis number from the firewall and putting it on another car.
No,cant be right.
Im sure I didnt read that.
I guess its 4.10 am here at work,and am a bit tired.
No,im sure I didnt read that.

From the photos shown,,its a perfect restoration project.
Just replace the RH gaurd,sills,and repair the rear quarter gaurds.
Etc Etc Etc
I presume its a drop nose,so its a good thing.

Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Robert. I should clarify that the photos were just the highlights (lowlights?). The shorter list is the good bits: roof, front crossmember, firewall, and parcel shelf. Oh, and someone already replaced the spare wheel well, which is immaculate. Everything else - cheese.

Thanks for the encouragement, maybe it's not really as bad as it feels...
 

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It's always a shock when these cars are bared of their paint and bog.

But in the end these cars invariably need new floors, sills/rockers and chassis rails and repairs to their doors and rear of front guards and both ends of rear guards ... thus it does not matter how bad those areas really are because they need to be replaced/repaired anyway :).

Have a look at my car when I started: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/picture-room/856-my-1750-gtv.html
Pete
 

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Toughen up princess :)

For our resto I've bought a boot lid, four guard patch panels, a b-pillar base, outer sills, rear wheel arches, a rear panel, boot floor, wheel well, front nose panel, LH front guard, radiator support, battery tray, and door skins. I try not to think how much of the original car will be left...

Here's some of the panels:
1750 GTV ? January 2011 #8
1750 GTV ? February 2011
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Toughen up princess :)
heh heh. Yeah, I'm getting that. I guess because I was expecting to get away with some repair sections, the notion of basically replacing all but four bits of the car was a shock. However I'm over it.

Glad to hear you had a good experience with Classic Alfa - I'm thinking new replacements is the low-risk way to go, it now comes down to which ones.

Let's get it done so I can get some "after" pics up!
 

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BTW, you are really lucky that you are restoring this car now. When I started restoring my car the replacement panels that I could get hold of were rubbish ... which is why I don't bother and just make my own.

Now you can get perfect sill/rocker panels, back then they were flat and just plain wrong. You could not even get the chassis rails but now you can.
Pete
 

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Howdy!

Its not all that bad. My car had to have the whole rear end removed after a BIG accident. I'd say a couple of things to think about are:

1. At least you know what you're dealing with regarding this shell now. If you get another (unless its already restored) you could be up for the same pain again.
2. If you need to get replacement panels anyway, the ugly repairs will disappear, as such the cost between repairing a rusty car and one like this might not be as scary as your first thought.
3. Its actually not that bad, a couple of new panels (and $$$) and you'll be smiling again.

Hopefully thats somewhat of a pep talk!
 

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Yep, welcome to the world of 105 restoration madness. Mine too will need to go through this sort of metamorphis. Paint and bog hides so much, ditto carpets and insulation but underneath all is all sorts of horrors.

I have started the panel collection process to rebuild mine, but a long way and many $$ to go.

See pics as it is, but photos can deceive, for it too has rust in the floors, cills, rear wheel arches, doors, bootlid front cross member, and then undoubtedly some more which I havn't found yet, but it is too good to part out.

And that doesn't even take into consideration mechanicals or the interior to be re-done.

Unless it is beyond salvation, go for it, for it is always good to save one more.
 

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Um, you should have seen my car when it came back from the blasters:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limited-production-1960-1977/74870-ar180015-new-owner.html

Read through the thread and discover that you are not alone in your quest.

The reality that you must embrace is that you only live once, but the car can live many times ;)

I commend you folks down under with your "bog", right hand drive, and remarkable restoration skills. I've found myself up late at night several times reading and being inspired by the over-the-top skills and patience that seems to be second nature to the Australian Alfa community.

cheers,
Brian
 

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I wish I could quickly post a picture of my 105 when it was on the rack but the pictures pre-date digital.......anyway, we had to replace the front panel, complete front left guard and front left inner guard. Luckily in those days all were available (just) as new stock from Alfa.

It was all because of a botched repair from a PO, lots of bog covering the problems and hidden rust as a result.
 

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Sorry to hear your restoration has hit a snag. One blessing of living in perth I suppose that our cars rust a little slower than in other climates so when you do eventually finish you'll have a car that will probably outlast all of us. Moreover replacement panels should be very easy to source and relatively cheap (not withstanding shipping from the UK I suppose).

I doubt that I would have the courage to strip my GTV 2000. Lord knows what lies beneath.

Best of luck with it and do keep us informed. I'm sure the few of us in Perth will be particularily interested in hearing about your experiences and I'm sure where possible ready to lend a hand.
 

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C'mon Gavin, get on with it! Since when do you strip down a 105 without expecting to replace the sills and most of the other lower panels! The longer you sit and think about it the more chance I will get mine done first! I reckon as long as the chassis has no twists it should be pretty straight forward for a panel guy now that everything has been 'exposed'. And if it is getting seriously expensive there is nothing wrong with using a bit of filler just keep it under half an inch! Please don't let the brain overrule the heart, save another stepfront!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all the support, and for pointing out that I am really just being soft about this.

Pete, if I were half the man you are I would be out in the carport right now welding something. However I am sitting on my a*se (yes, Americans that is how you spell it:D) having a beer. I think what you are doing is awesome, I wish I had the patience.

Yeah, Derek, I know! Sills were a laydown misere, but I have just four bits of body that don't need replacing!!

Classic Alfa say they can do a package deal on all the panels needed for full restorations - anyone done this with them?

Any other sources of new panels I should be looking at?
 

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Something you car restorers should consider about your cars before you paint them.

Fit bootlid and rubber,and make sure the gaps and closing of the bootlid are perfect fitting before painting.
Same goes for the doors.Fit the rubber,make all required adjustments = panel fit to the sills,front + rear gaurds.
I have seen so many cars repaired,and then after its painted,the doors stick out,the bootlid sits up at the rear heaps and the door,bonnet and bootlid gaps are shocking.
Better to trial fit everything= rubbers,door outer door handles,lights,make adjustments before the car is painted.
PSK,maybe you should come down here soon and have a look at the latest project and get some more ideas.
It will inspire you even more.

Just a thought.
How much would a serious person pay for a perfect shell,all gapped= bonnet, bootlid , doors,floors done,sills done,front sway bar mounts cross member,front lower apron etc and all file finished ?
Ready to be painted ?

Robert
 

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Robert,

Thanks for the comments and photos and yes I will be pretty much assembling my shell before paint (including installing front and rear windscreens). Not looking forward to this but it has to happen and the only way of knowing if it is really right.

Soon I will have the right hand door shell repaired (see http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/176547-bottom-door-repair-3.html#post1005160) and then I will hang that door and gap it ... bit nervous here because I originally gapped the shell for another door (Series I 1750), so likely there will be some work required here.

Best
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Resto Takes A Possible Right Turn

OK, well, you never know how things are going to go. In the course of shopping around for panels we have found a complete 1965 Giulia Sprint GT body that looks (to the experts, and to my untrained eye) to be in really good nick. I'm doing due diligence on it, but if it stacks up it seems that I have the opportunity to find myself in possession of this instead of a Junior - most of my mechanicals will drop in, I have some interior to source (no biggie) and need to get a new drivetrain (I have a 1300 w/ short 5th and short diff to swap).

Seems like a good idea to me - I get a step nose GT (my main aim), fully restored in my hands (my other aim). I would also be saving a rarer car I think - the guy selling it is a racer and is very enthusiastic about dropping all sorts of go-fast bits into it. Good luck to him, that's his thing, but in my opinion racers are better built out of hairier and more common donors.

Again, all thoughts welcome as I work out which way to jump.
 

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Gavin - good luck with the new Step GT - if it's a WA car then it shouldn't be as rusty - god knows there isn't much rain apart from the last week happening in Perth.
 

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Sounds like a good option. Maybe a racer who wants to build a GTA clone will want to buy your 'lightened' shell. Send me some pics if you want an opinion on what is original or not on it.
 
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