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One is from the Montini merchant's private collection, the other two are privately owned but I don't know the frame numbers
 

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One is from the Montini merchant's private collection, the other two are privately owned but I don't know the frame numbers
The Montini apparently carries number 752645 but that number is not among the 50 listed by Tabuchcci making it #51??? and it is said there are other chassis issues with it.

Your 752691 is the highest listed number but not necessarily the last built as we know they were not built on order.

Regards

Ken
 

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At least one Guida a Destra (RHD) more in Italy. 752564, with same owner for 45 years. Montini’s car 752654 (Autodelta prepared) is missing from official production list because of an oversight. It is officially recognised after expertise by Tabucchi and Marzullo in 2008, and included in RIAR and ASI lists. (also 613002 is missing from official production list, though it was used as test car by Auto Italiana, and confirmed already in 1965 as existing chassis number)
 

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GTA *613002* was not forgotten by Alfa Romeo but by others. AR*752654* was never built by Alfa Romeo because it was made in 2007/2008 on a LHD shell, not sure if GTA or not. The numbers on car and engine are homemade. No expert would confirm it as a real RHD GTA.
 

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..."AR*752654* was never built by Alfa Romeo because it was made in 2007/2008 on a LHD shell, not sure if GTA or not. The numbers on car and engine are homemade".
Here is clear example of LHD shell used to produce fake AR*752654* in 2007/2008. The photos are from the folder presented with request for authentication, and claimed to be produced in 2005 (Italians!). The shell is obviously not GTA one. Here are also VIN and engine number from the same folder, evidently homemade as Ubelher stated. Strange enough that presumed experts Tabucchi* and Marzullo* accepted numbers as valid (Italians!), and what’s more, cited them together with rear gutter code and ID plate on the firewall (Italians!) in their incorrect expertise released in 2009.
 

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…”No expert would confirm it as a real RHD GTA”.
Yes, but the fact is that Maurizio Tabucchi* and Lorenzo Marzullo* (probably for money) accepted to confirm such evident counterfeit, and other structures like RIAR (Registro Italiano Alfa Romeo) and ASI (Automotoclub Storico Italiano) also approved this illegal act and inscribed fake GTA among true cars. Incredible! (Italians!). They even wrote statement in which they explained their ‘reasoning’ but it certainly couldn’t pass the severe Ubelher’s control.
*Late Maurizio Tabucchi was president of the RIAR Technical Commission in 2009, and Lorenzo Marzullo is the actual president of the same structure, the only one authorised to issue certifications for cars of historic interest and value.
In his previous post, Ubelher denied competence and qualification for Fabio Tittareli official expert of CSAI as he ‘missed to recognise the fake firewall, fake fenders and fake rear part’ on GTA AR*613760*, returned in Italy from Senegal, that Franco Angelini tried to present as authentic (Italians!)
 

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Older photographs of the construction of AR*752654* show that the aluminium parts came from a green LHD wreck with red engine bay and a brake booster. Additionally there are photographs of the engine bay of AR*752654* with the firewall already stamped with it's number that show the holes on the left side open and that on the right side closed. It was a chassis of a LHD steel bodied car and not a GTA/GTAJ one. Your first pic in post #20 confirms it precisely. The stamping in the rear is correct for a RHD GTA. The stamping of the VIN at the firewall was not correct before painted, not correct with the red paint and still is not correct with the paint removed. The engine *18947* is stamped correctly but the car ran with engine *18967* when restored and that one was not a correct one.

Of course it is not easy to look under fresh paint, but more than a few parts on AR*752654* are not original to a GTA.

We got documents and photographs from Alfa Romeo archives and enthusiasts in trust. We got them for the research on our books but not to publish them. But now we can help in identifying fakes.

By the way - and this is what this thread is about - GTA *752691* seems a correct chassis.
 

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The first picture is NOT correct for a RHD 752 car. The pedal opening is not in the correct position and it is not even the correct type. RHD is completely different arrangement to LHD.
Also the gas pedal hole visible is should not even be present in a RHD car.....
Now if the image is reversed, it all becomes clear & absolutely correct for a LHD car.......photoshop is a wonderful thing isn't it!
I agree with ARGTAReg statement "LHD shell used to produce fake AR752564", for this is exactly what it shows if this photo was used as evidence for obtaining authentication.
Apologies to Matteograndi for his original thread being hijacked.
Vince.
 

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I thought Italy's fake laws resulted in replica vehicles being crushed. I know of a Maserati that was crushed ...

I guess if somebody says it's real it does not get crushed!
Pete
 

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The pic was not photoshopped as can be seen on the number plate of the Smart in the background. They really cut the a LHD pedal opening on the right hand side but let the gas pedal hole on the left open.
 

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The pic was not photoshopped as can be seen on the number plate of the Smart in the background. They really cut the a LHD pedal opening on the right hand side but let the gas pedal hole on the left open.

The photo has been flipped . Look at the gear stick opening and the repairs to the firewall wheel bulges !
 

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You would have to be utterly stupid to try and producd a RHD GTA and not do the tiniest bit of research and learn that LHD versus RHD 105 series Alfas are very different.
Pete
 

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The pic was not photoshopped as can be seen on the number plate of the Smart in the background. They really cut the a LHD pedal opening on the right hand side but let the gas pedal hole on the left open.
Yes, I see....the gas pedal hole is in the LHD position, so incorrect for RHD anyway. And then the LHD pedal opening re-positioned to the RH side, incorrect as well.
I can only assume, IF Mr Tabucchi did pass this car, he must have been unfamiliar with RHD version of the 105 Giulia & been duped by the makers.
I have an original RHD GT '65, original RHD GTA '65, and also originally LHD GTV '67 in my garage, so I am familiar with the very different pedal layout & coachwork between Left & Right drive variation.
 

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Thank you for the lesson about difference among LHD and RHD, I will try to learn those details and avoid similar mistakes, though someone states that it was better solution to use LHD shell to produce LHD fake instead of RHD. But the temptation and challenge were stronger than reason, and then, who could count on judgement of such experts? Here in Italy we alas have no similar quality. Matteo sei proprio sicuro che siamo solo dei mafiosi?
To tot up all recent verdicts:
In case of late Franco Angelini, criminal intent was obvious. He was trying to rematriculate (illegally) reimported car from Senegal (no papers present) one year before he purchased it, though stating that car was in his possession through the years. (In base of statement of Mr. Ubelher). Associate in crime was legal expert and consultant Fabio Tittarelli for issuing incorrect declaration of authenticity and HTP (or he was just incompetent?), ignoring fake codes and parts on AR613760 (Mr. Ubelher’s statement on car). For AR752654 facts are even worse. Montini Automobili are evidently guilty for producing fake car on LHD base falsifying VIN and engine number with false confirm of the authenticity by late Maurizio Tabucchi (President of RIAR Technical Commission in the days of exam of the car) and Lorenzo Marzullo (actual President of the RIAR Technical Commission) and their direct involvement in crime act (stated by Mr. Ubelher). Naturally, the whole counterplot under my perfidy direction and inexcusable silence of Centro Documentazione directed by FIAT people (Dott. Fazio and Dott. Ardizio that are less prepared or less friendly to true AR experts?)
Well done! Good and convincing story with enough suspense. In past days it could be better proposal for Federico Fellini and omnibus “Tre passi nel delirio”. Just imagine couple of GTAs in place of Fantuzzi’s 330 LMB in the story of Toby Dammit…
For Photoshop lovers here is the puzzle. Flipped or not?
 

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I still think the interior photo is flipped. I cannot see the number plate clearly and nobody would know that little about RHD versions of these cars to make this mistake, plus the pedal box would not fit ... you would have to cast a reversed one!
Pete
 

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Hi Matteo,
Big job on 752691 & what a great result. It looks like it began in need of much attention, you have certainly gone the whole way. Congratulations. And I see from you body-off picture that your car certainly started life correct as RHD!
Agree. Quality job
PSK, in the interior shot of the disputed 752654, the gas pedal hole is in the correct place for LHD, however the LHD brake/clutch pedal opening has been moved the the right side. Which of course is NOTHING like & NOT EVEN IN THE SAME POSITION as the genuine factory method of RHD pedal mounting. To you & I who live in RHD countries, this is plainly obvious, but to others who may have never seen original RHD method & components....??
Vince.
Nothing has been moved. All that has happened is they have taken a photo of a LHD shell interior, and mirrored the photo for their documentation in an attempt to verify that it is a RHD model. Shane1750 is right IMO.
Pete
 

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Congratulations to Matte on doing such a fine restoration on his GTA, that car has had excellent craftsman and engineers rebuild it with such care. Regarding the 752654 I too feel certain the interior photo has been flipped, just how could you drive such a car with the pedals so close to the transmission hump? Based on my RHD Sprint GT that location is off by approximately 200 mm.
Tim
Hi Tim & PSK, no, the picture has not been flipped, (I thought this too at first glance) only the LHD bake/clutch pedal opening has been shifted across to the Right. You can see the LHD gas pedal hole (surrounded by 4 screw holes) in in its correct place to the Left. Also the oil cooler mount is visible also correctly on the Left.
So the firewall is a LHD as shown in the picture, but the LHD big pedals opening has been shifted across. This is completely wrong because the pedals of a RHD are centered over the chassis leg underneath, and does not have a big rectangular hole, only a narrow slot in the floor for the pedals. And the gas pedal hole should not exist at all....only on LHD.
Vince.
 

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Hi Tim & PSK, no, the picture has not been flipped, (I thought this too at first glance) only the LHD bake/clutch pedal opening has been shifted across to the Right. You can see the LHD gas pedal hole (surrounded by 4 screw holes) in in its correct place to the Left. Also the oil cooler mount is visible also correctly on the Left.
So the firewall is a LHD as shown in the picture, but the LHD big pedals opening has been shifted across. This is completely wrong because the pedals of a RHD are centered over the chassis leg underneath, and does not have a big rectangular hole, only a narrow slot in the floor for the pedals. And the gas pedal hole should not exist at all....only on LHD.
Vince.
Well the builder must be a complete idiot then (and yes I am well aware of how the RHD pedals work :)). I cannot even imagine how the LHD pedal box would work on the right side. The clutch pedal would be in the middle, where the brake is supposed to be. I understand that you cannot swap brake and clutch pedal in the alloy casting ... so did they cast a complete reverse imagine then?

I would find it easier to believe that the oil cooler was installed on the wrong side, OR the photo has been photoshopped not just reversed for the fraudulent documents :)

This cannot be installed at all on the right side: Image from Alfabb.com
Pete
 

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I would not call the builder an idiot, perhaps unfamiliar with RHD when he was doing the conversion. Until I owned a LHD, I had no idea of the
substantial difference in the manner the pedals are fitted. I always assumed, but never researched, that the LHD would be a side-swap of our simple RHD arrangement. I never thought the LHD would be such a bulky, complicated & constricted method. I see now that really it was a continuation of thought from the older Giulietta series. No wonder they re-designed for top mount pedals on LHD in later years.
Vince.
 
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