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Ken, I really think we're missing to point with this Denis Jenkinson post!

...and who is this ARGTAReg guy anyway? Where does he reside? Anyone with info please post here or PM.


I was going to post a couple more photos but it seems this is going to be one of those typical useless information threads.


Good Luck to GTA buyers please do your Due Diligence on AR 613760
It could be useful to post this missing photos anyway (at least the one with wrong trunk number) About me, try with Autodelta Golden Years
 

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I do not know the history of this particular car after 1992, nor I could state its ownership. From 1992 till today it could have happened everything to it included reshaping or similar. I can say with reasonable convincement that in the days of exam, it was controlled scrupulously in every detail and passport released only with certainty of its authenticity. The request had started from Mr. Franco Angelini personally and the car was part of his garage for years.

I still cannot be convinsed that the picture and picture of a document are from the 1991 or 92 inspection of 613760 as you seem to imply. What you show could be for any LHD GTA. And BTW The document is somewhat misleading as the RHD GTA stamping is different.

Here is a google translation of the pictured document.
 

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ARGTAReg was former as "Borzacchini Jr" on AlfaBB (listed as your friend) and looking at his last posts may show you his intention. AR613760 has absolutely no documented history from 1965 to 1990. The "Queen of Vallelunga", whatever that should be, is another car, AR613274. Franco Angelini asked for the Certificato d'Origine in 1990 but purchased the car one year later. In 2007 local enthusiasts inspected the car and found a strange firewall, wrong rear wall, wrong stamping in the boot and wrong fenders; they suggested it might have been a GTAJ chassis at all. Martin Uebelher, Alleggerita II
 

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ARGTAReg was former as "Borzacchini Jr" on AlfaBB (listed as your friend) and looking at his last posts may show you his intention. AR613760 has absolutely no documented history from 1965 to 1990. The "Queen of Vallelunga", whatever that should be, is another car, AR613274. Franco Angelini asked for the Certificato d'Origine in 1990 but purchased the car one year later. In 2007 local enthusiasts inspected the car and found a strange firewall, wrong rear wall, wrong stamping in the boot and wrong fenders; they suggested it might have been a GTAJ chassis at all. Martin Uebelher, Alleggerita II
Martin, it looks like the 2018 inspection in Florida is finding the same.

Regards

Ken
 

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AR 613760
Well, your photo is unequivocal (both to be precise). I would agree with you that this car is somewhat strange, a mix of two GTA versions, and surely not the car examined in 1991, and confirmed as correct by Maurizio Tabucchi. The fact that someone here is accusing late Franco Angelini for fraud is grievous and sad. He was honest and brave person, but such things are, alas, not infrequent in this forum and by more-less same authors. To remind: I never stated that 613760 is (was) ‘Regina di Vallelunga’ (Queen of Vallelunga). That was nickname of Ig****o Giunti’s GTA (see photo) that beard another chassis number. 613760 was initially red Stradale GTA and owned by Angelini. Certifications were requested in 1990 with intention to sell the car in 1991, re-registered in PRA (public registry), and tuned to regular Corsa standard without ‘Slittone’ (sliding block). It is clear from the formulation in 'libretto' that car had no previous owner nor registration, it was simply left in garage stock. I have also declared that I did not know anything about further ownership or destiny of that car (just see my posts).
 

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ARGTAReg was former as "Borzacchini Jr" on AlfaBB (listed as your friend) and looking at his last posts may show you his intention. AR613760 has absolutely no documented history from 1965 to 1990. The "Queen of Vallelunga", whatever that should be, is another car, AR613274. Franco Angelini asked for the Certificato d'Origine in 1990 but purchased the car one year later. In 2007 local enthusiasts inspected the car and found a strange firewall, wrong rear wall, wrong stamping in the boot and wrong fenders; they suggested it might have been a GTAJ chassis at all. Martin Uebelher, Alleggerita II
Hi there Martin, you know there are two AR613274........but that’s another story :smile2:
 

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The fact that someone here is accusing late Franco Angelini for fraud is grievous and sad. He was honest and brave person, but such things are, alas, not infrequent in this forum and by more-less same authors..
YOU call someone 'someone' who is not a fraud photoshopper like you are Mr Pajevic alias Borzacchini jr alias ARGTAReg??? You are a person who posted here on ARBB several faked pics years ago 'showing' you in several cars, writing about car histories in the past nobody could confirm except of your fantasy? You faked factory pics and posted them here!

And now you try to convince us with documents which are nearly 30 years old?

It's sad Robert Little does not verify your personal interests.
 

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No. The original GTA *613760* initially was not red and not delivered to Angelini but to a foreign country. How the actual car came into Angelini's hands back in Italy in 1990 is not documented. Since 2007 some parts of this car had been exchanged including the rear wall behind the seats.
 

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No. The original GTA *613760* initially was not red and not delivered to Angelini but to a foreign country. How the actual car came into Angelini's hands back in Italy in 1990 is not documented. Since 2007 some parts of this car had been exchanged including the rear wall behind the seats.
Or there is still another *613760* out there.

Don't want to get involved, but the area around the bulkhead chassis/VIN number looks interesting. One wonders what the other side looks like and if any welds are apparent? Of course maybe somebody miss hit with a hammer or bumped the bulkhead during an engine install, etc. ... so who knows?; it could actually be the real *613760*
Pete
 

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Post #1 says that 613670 was delivered to the Senegalese importer. Presumably in Senegal West Africa. Is that the foreign country Martin U refers?

Where is that car today. Did it ever leave Africa? Was it ever delivered to Angelini or was Angelini delivered the car being discussed here with all it's questions.

And yes PSK, there does appear to be something amiss with the serial number stamping along with all the other issues.

Ciao

Ken
 

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Kind of funny how this was edited in post #1



 

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YOU call someone 'someone' who is not a fraud photoshopper like you are Mr Pajevic alias Borzacchini jr alias ARGTAReg??? You are a person who posted here on ARBB several faked pics years ago 'showing' you in several cars, writing about car histories in the past nobody could confirm except of your fantasy? You faked factory pics and posted them here!

And now you try to convince us with documents which are nearly 30 years old?

It's sad Robert Little does not verify your personal interests.
Sir James,
I confess that you are not among my preferred interlocutors, and that I do not appreciate your morbid concern about me. Anyhow, I will permit myself to suggest you to provide for two books, ‘Motori e Massoneria’ and ‘I miei anni in Autodelta’ (written by Gian Luigi Picchi, remember him?) just to enlarge your horizons about my malefic entity. There is entire chapter dedicated to me and other interesting passages. Google translator would be helpful as books are in Italian, but if you have not closeness with books, try some more recent reviews like ‘Quattroruote’ or ‘MET’ as they are full of photos (obviously Photoshoped). Please, do not worry to much about Robert Little, Don Black or any other of my American friends. They have certainly controlled my credentials. Regardless to your noble effort to reveal my fraudulent nature, this topic must be extremely boring for the members of this community, and that’s why I consider this epistolary parenthesis closed now, here and forever.
For anyone interesting in my primary activity, it is enough to type my name. Something in Internet is present.

To return to the topic. I have stated and will repeat: In data 12 November 1991, the car with chassis number 613760, original and with authentic parts, was re-registered to the PRA (public car registry) of Rome. Italian law request (obligatory) to indicate previous owner or registry data in case the owner is not the same person that requests registration (immatricolazione). As it is clear and visible that the formula for registration is ‘after checking and prove’ without mentioning previous registration, that means that the owner is the same person that requested registration (Franco Angelini as indicated in documents). In his letter to the factory, asking for certification, Angelini stated that car was his property, and that his request was done with intention to reimmarticolazione (re-registering).
 

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ARGTAReg

You've repeated your same thoughts multiple times regarding AR 613760. We all know your history, good or bad, so please stop posting the same thing over and over... basically 26 years ago you believe the car was correct - WE GOT IT!... Done, finished, we understand! Today we believe it is no longer correct nor did it seem to be correct in 2007 when inspected per Martin.

The information here is to help someone from accidentally purchasing a car claiming to be a GTA with history built in 1965 when in reality it seems to be (and I'm certainly not an expert like you) a later model JR. i.e - Jr. floors, 4 bolt cross member, driver side trunk release, stamping in trunk, etc.

I think we all agree, due diligence and forensic work is suggested before purchasing to verify the stated history. That's it!

Please please please stop polluting this thread regarding AR 613760
 

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Gentlemen,

We own this car and have it here in South Florida, and you are all welcome to come inspect it yourselves. We also have a ream of documentation including the original technical passport, FIA paperwork, and Angelini paperwork. As with any race car, there may have been modifications made along the way, but this is the original 613760. We run into this all the time with Porsche race cars. Just because a car has been modified or repaired, it doesn't change the fact that the car is THE CAR. If it wasn't the real original car, it wouldn't have the real original documentation.

With regard to the "Queen of Vallelunga" We don't make the claim, only the belief. There is no documentation anywhere that we could find that definitively identifies which car was the Queen, and some have said it is this car because it won at Vallelunga 3 times.

We have ascertained that there is a certain poster in this thread who has a personal reason for disparaging our car having to do with the previous owner. To that poster: That person no longer owns this car, and you can stand down.

If anyone has actual proof, not speculation, that our car is not what we say it is, please provide it. We are happy to allow inspections of the car. Please feel free to contact us.

Atlantis Motor Group
800-935-9590
 

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I did a closer research in Ig****o Giunti's Vallelunga successes with GTAs. Giunti won the '661204 3. Criterium dell'Ora, with starting n. 214 on the car and registration ROMA 906521. Then he won the '670312 1. Trofeo Sambuca Molinari, n. 80, registration ROMA 906521. Next success was the '670416 2. Trofeo Marathon, n. 96, registration ROMA 906521. His fourth success was the '670525 3. Coppa Agip, n. 84. It seems to be the same car as in the previous races but the photograph is not sharp enough to read the number plate. The fifth and last win was the '671014 5. Trofeo Ettore Bettoja, n. 78, registered ROMA 906521 again. Another driver was not allowed to participate, sued against the decision of the race commissioners and so the race was repeated one month later. Giunti did not enter in that event. Giunti then did a demonstration run at Vallelunga with the “ROMA 906521” car for a report in '671214 Auto Italiana 50. Aldo “Baronio” Cerruti scored another two wins at Vallelunga with this very car in '68 and '69. If you name it the "Queen of Vallelunga" it would be this GTA.

But ROMA 906521 was the registration of GTA *613274*. There is no reason to believe that these number plates should have been used throughout the years for any other car than *613274*.

GTA *613760* was originally sold to Senegal. Technical passports for race cars were not necessary before 1969, Historical Technical Passports not before the early 1980s. The Passaporto Tecnico CSAI of *613760* seems to have been issued in 1991? If you can deliver original documented history of how the car came from the original 1965 owner in Africa to Roma/Rome in 1990 it would help a lot.
 
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