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Discussion Starter #1
Would any of you 1900, 2000 and 2600 specialists recognize one of these trunk lid badges / ornaments, from being on your cars ?
We do know that in general they were on the trunk lids of the Giulietta Sprints + SS and probably on some 2600 cars (?) but the badges and rings on these pictures here are a kind of oddities, even in the Giulietta range. That's why we are enlarging the search with your mighty cars.
Many thanks for confirming that you would have it on your specific car and please could you also specify what part on the picture you would be talking about: plastic or enameled badge, the colour of the badge, a ring with holes or with soldered pins type, etc.

Rgds,

Thierry

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They are not found on AR 2000 (102) and 2600 (106) Spiders made by Touring. None of them.

However, they seem to have been mounted on the lid of 2000 and 2600 Sprints produced by Bertone

The 2000 Sprint in this link (143226) has a badge similar as the one in the right upper corner of your picture.

The 2600 Sprints that I googled seem to either have the same as the 2000 Sprints, or have a silver version of the badge in the left upper corner of your pictures.

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Gr., Pieter
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Pieter,

Thanks for your quick reply, pictures and confirmation, our thoughts went also in the direction of the 2000 and 2600 sprints having this badge. Now we can exclude the berlinas and spiders here.
We would like to find any further precise information, and pictures if possible, about badges on unrestored or original 2000 and 2600 sprint cars, especially about the colour and material the badges were made of and certainly about how they were fixed on the trunk lid. Did the ring have studs (pins) or just holes for the studs of the central badge ? We think most of the rings had holes but we would like to understand why the ring below on the right of the picture has pins that are soldered mechanically ( this was not a home made creation ). Was there a series of this type of rings ?

Thank you all for sharing your precious knowledge about this.

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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Below pages from the 102 (Pub. 685) and 106 (Pub. 1164) parts catalogs.

102 Sprint:
  • "Alfa Romeo" front grille badge (2 horizontal studs): Initially 101.00.59.052.00 (Pub. 992, single volume covering Series 1 cars only) then 2800.45002 (Pub 1164, 2 volumes covering S1 and S2 cars -- but no remark on the possibility of them having different badges)
  • "2000 Sprint" badge on trunk lid, side and dashboard: 102.05.56.013.00
  • "Bertone" badge on side: 1493.86.725
  • "Alfa Romeo" trunk lid badge (diagonal studs): 1493.86.726
106 Sprint:
  • "Alfa Romeo" front grille badge: 2400.51002 (snap-on badge with 2 horizontal plastic studs, same on Berlina and Spider)
  • "2600 Sprint" badge on trunk lid, side and dashboard: 106.02.56.013.00
  • "Bertone" badge on side: 1493.86.725
  • "Alfa Romeo" trunk lid badge (diagonal studs): 1493.86.726
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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Ruedi,

Great information thank you.

I'm mostly (very) interested in the ring on the trunk lid of the white car.
What does hold the ring from falling of the trunk lid if it wouldn't have pins or studs ?
Wouldn't that be the same ring as the one right/ below on my picture?
A great find again.

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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The picture of the white car was from a car Beverly Hills Car Club sold in 2014. Unfortunately, I don't have larger or better pictures that would show more details of that car.

A picture I have of a late, absolutely original and unmolested 102 Sprint shows the inside of the trunk lid, which indicate there may have been only the 2 diagonal studs for the round badge (see cropped image below). The question remains whether these studs were for the ring or the badge or both (and whether or not an adhesive may have been used for the ring).

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Discussion Starter #7
If I conclude correctly, the ring with the pins in my picture would assume that the badge was glued on the ring because due to the soldered pins there were no holes left for studs or pins from the badge anymore.
At least on your picture in post # 6, the two marks are in the 10 and 4 o'clock position, that would mean that the badge was in plastic.
This all untill we can find enameled badges with the 10 - 4 o'clock position of the pins or studs.
The 10 - 4 o'clock position and the 9 - 3 o'clock versions of the holes can be seen in my second pictures of post # 1.
Thanks again,
Thierry
 

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Here are a couple of oddities: The first one is on the late 102 Sprint (106687 from 1961) and seems to be Cloisonné . The last 2 pictures are probably from an early 102 Sprint (10205.00015 from 1960), but the grille could be a part that survived from another 102 or 106 Sprint. This badge seems to be plastic.

I've never seen a yellowish front badge other than the one on this car (but 102 and 106 Sprints had yellowish "Bertone" and "2000 Sprint" badges on the sides). There is a chance that a previous owner "decorated" the car , but the effort to make a one-off badge like this one seems to be cost-prohibitive. otherwise, this particular car seems to be largely original.

The pictures are cropped details of much larger pictures, hence the poor quality and resolution.

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P1070183 (shop attic) (cropped).jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Ruedi and all,

In order to find a link somewhere about the material the 2800.45002 and 101.00.59.052.00 badges were made of, both being used on the 102 model, I would have some questions for you and everyone, being more involved with the 102 model than I am.

Maybe there were both plastic and enameled badges used on the 102.
From the catalogs, we know that there were 3 badges, firstly the 1488.38703 , and later on the 2800.45002 and the 101.00.59.052.00 .


From the 1958 catalog for the 102 series we know that at least on the berlina and the spider, the front badge was the 1488.38703 . (see pictures from 58_spyder.)
That badge had pins and clipses. We also know that it was enameled (cloisonné).

In my 102 catalog 728 from 11/1960, that still only lists berlinas and spiders, the badge had changed to number 2800.45002. It had also pins and clipses.
Do you perhaps have a later 102 catalog than mine to check whether the 2800.45002 remained for the berlina and the spider ?

What about that front badge of the 102 Sprint ?
Did the 102 Sprint receive the 101.00.59.052.00 badge from the beginning?

Have I understood correctly from your post # 4 that it was in a later catalog that the Sprint 102 had the 2800.45002 instead of the 101.00.59.052.00 ?

Would it be correct to say that the 101.00.59.052.00 was the successor of the 2800.45002 or is this wrong? Was it maybe the other way around ?

Could you find in your 102 catalogs some specifications about the material of the 2800.45002 badge , if that number is in the catalog of course ?
The same and for us from the Giulietta section, an even more important question: have you any specific details about the 101.00.59.052.00 badge ? > Fixation and material ?

According to the Giulietta catalogs the 101.00.59.052.00 would have pins and clipses (1488.38005).
But I can't see those clipses on the 102 drawing in your post # 4. Could you check in the numbers listing for that page whether Alfa mentioned the 1488.38005 clips there after all ?

We also try to find out what was the material of the 101.00.59.052.00 as it was also used on the 101 Giuliettas.
Up to now we don't have proof of the material yet , It might have been still enameled. That's why we look for more information on cars that also used the 101.00.59.052.00 like the 102.

Sorry for the overload on questions, so thank you for any information even when it is very small !
Of course all other interested people, please feel invited to give some input about the specific questions.

Thierry
 

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Thierry,

No worries about overload -- the badges are an interesting topic for me (and one that I had questions about for a long time). What one fnd in the books generally seems to be too simplistic for me.

Let's start with some background on the 102 Sprint situation -- which is complicated, and I can't say I fully understand it (yet). Some of the story is as follows:
  • It appears the 102 Sprint parts were ONLY listed as an amendment to the Italian parts catalog Pub. 685. I'm guessing such an amendment was not issued for the English 102 parts catalog Pub. 728 (or, if such an amendment exists in English, I've never seen it).
  • The 102 Sprints have two chassis number ranges: Cars built in 1960 seems to use 10205.xxxxx number range while cars built in 1961 are stamped 106xxx. It remains unclear whether changing the chassis numbering format was a functions of (a) Alfa policy, (b) Bertone switching from one plant to another (number ranges could be indicative of the plant).
  • As pointed out elsewhere, I find the 106xxx intriguing on context of the 106 series 2600 models and I wonder, (a) if this number range was supposed to be for 2600 cars, and (b), if the 102 Sprint just happened because the 2600 engine was not production-ready at the time.
  • Further convolution arises from the fact that even the first 2600 parts catalog (the English version is Pub. 992) shows two different body versions for the 106 Sprint (see discussion in this thread). Whether or not this may have been a function of "surplus" 102 Sprint bodies being used (or used up) for 106 Sprint production, and/or the Bertone factory migration we don't know.
Now, given the complexities, it is possible that 102 and 106 Sprints concurrently had 2 different badges (e.g. plastic and enameled) installed at the factory. The first 106 Sprint and Spider models (probably about 2-400 each) came with 102 hubcaps. I wouldn't bet on whether they used up a surplus of hubcaps that were produced, or that the new hubcaps weren't ready in time, or somebody changed their mind late in the game. Then, the notion of trim levels may also come into play: I could imagine that cars with leather interior might have had a have blingier badge in the front than those with cloth interior. Whether Alfa would have considered the "traditional jewelry" enamel badge or the "modern and futuristic" plastic badge to be more blingy is a matter of taste (we probably are too distant from understanding such choices today).

Returning to parts numbers and what's in the literature:
  • None of the parts catalogs I have show what material the badges are made of.
  • Pub. 685 lists 2800.45002 for Berlina and Spider (with 2 clips 1488.38.005) and 101.00.59.052.00 for Sprint (but lists no clip or nut fr that badge). The date in the Italian 102 parts catalog Pub. 685 is Jul-1959, but the Sprint amendment (and updates to the general parts catalog that required swapping out pages) probably date from 1960-61. Unfortunately, I sold a 102 parts catalog after I scanned it -- only to have the hard disk (and the backup disk -- same make and model) fail with head crashes. That parts catalog had both the original pages and the amendments in separate sections of the binder (and a date for the amendment).
  • The 2600 parts catalog Pub. 992 (Jun-1964) lists 101.00.59.052.00 for all three models, but lists only 1 Spring clip, called "tab washer, badge securing." There is a possibility that the studs of the badge 101.00.59.052.00 may have been constructed in such a way that no spring clip was needed. Maybe that wasn't working very well?
  • The later 2600 parts catalog Pub. 1164 (dated Mar-1966) replaces 101.00.59.052.00 outright with 2400.51002, and again lists no springs clips for Berlina and Sprint, and only 1 spring clip for the Spider.
  • Pub. 953 "List of 'Spare parts initial lots' for Distributor's or Dealer's Stores" for 2600 cars lists only 101.00.59.052.00 as initial stock items (but no spring clips). This list was originally created in Jun-63 in Italian and translated and printed in English in Oct-1963 (pricing is given in £).
  • The 2600 SZ parts catalog Pub. 1167 (dated Apr-1966) lists 2400.51002 for the badge, with 2 clips 1488.38.005.
So, it appears 2800.45002 was on the original 102 Berlina and Spider. The 102 Sprint had 101.00.59.052.00, as did 2600 until at least Summer or Fall of 1963 (which is about the time frame when the Series 2 production of 2600 Berlina, Sprint and Spider began), and was then replaced by 2400.51002.

Now, a comment on the numbering schemes: I have a hunch that parts numbers that begin with 101, 102, 105, 106, etc. typically were made by Alfa Romeo in-house, whereas generic components, or components from specific suppliers, had a 4-digit prefix. So, in my mind, it is entirely possible that Alfa made the 101.00.59.052.00 badges themselves, found out that it was too much of a hassle, and/or too expensive, and farmed production back out again.
 

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Thierry,
Jay Nuxoll in Bellevue (Wa), twoliterlover, who used to be very active on this forum, owns the original 2000 Sprint shown at the Jan 11 Brussels car show in 1961. That car was a low mileage car and its was unrestored (but crudely painted red over the original white) when he purchased it. If you contact him, he may want to check in detail the badge for the early 2000 Sprints.
Gr., Pieter
 

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Hello to you all.
The badge in question, the one with the ring outside and hold by 3 pins to a black plastic with Alfa Romeo inscription.
That is a badge used by Carrozzeria Bertone on the product, they produced for Alfa Romeo.
It was mounted on the trunk on the Giulietta Sprint. It is my impression that it came into use in connection with the presentation of the Sprint Veloce.
I is found on the Giulietta Sprint – Sprint Speciale the 2000 coupe and the 2600 coupe,
Mounted on the trunk lid.
 

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From the current BaT auction here, a picture of an original trunk badge on a 1958 Giulietta 750B.

 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Ruedi,

Here you can see some close up pictures of that badge that I asked at the seller in the 'for sale' section yet.
It is still difficult to see how it was originally when new, but could the story be that the golden badge received a chrome finish to become the silverish/black cloisonné later so that it combined better with the chrome outer ring ?
See thread:

1958 Giulietta Sprint 750B Project

Rgds,
Thierry
 

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There exist 2 versions one wit silver script, that I regard as the original.
Then there is versions with golden script, I am uncertain if that version was used by Carrozzeria Bertone.
Both badge version is generally obtainable on the net or eBay
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi 2000 touring sp,

Great collected works, can we say that what is written in Danish on P 63 is about the same as what you noted in earlier post # 13? If not, ehhhmm could you please translate page 63 for us ? Probably your English is better than our Danish ...

Thanks,
Thierry
 

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Hi 2000 touring sp,

Great collected works, can we say that what is written in Danish on P 63 is about the same as what you noted in earlier post # 13? If not, ehhhmm could you please translate page 63 for us ? Probably your English is better than our Danish ...

Thanks,
Thierry
Probably introduced in 1956 in conjunction with the Giulietta Sprint Veloce. It was used on the Sprint Specialty and the 2000 Coupe (tipo 102) Giulietta Sprint and Sprint Veloce. Has been used on the late Giulia Sprint Speciale in 1966 and at Tipo 33 Stradale in 1967. There are sources who point out that on Veloce versions it was without the outer ring. It was removed for the sake of weight saving. Why there were 3 legs. Can you philosophize about. But historically, Alfa Romeo had been with boats in the air - on the water and on the ground. But can also illustrate Alfa Romeo's previous attachment to the aeronautical, It is available in 2 versions with laurel wreath and without laurel wreath shape of 3 wings on the propeller.

I used Word electronic translation
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you 2000 touring sp for the translation.

I have not much documentation of those badges being mounted on other cars than the Giuliettas, only from some catalogs.
That was the reason of starting this thread in this section.
As you can see in post # 1, I found more variants of these badges and rings.

About this badge being on the Giuliettas:

What I learned from an early Giulietta catalog, to the extent that the listing was done correctly, is that both Sprints, the early 750B and the 750E, but not from the beginning, did have a trunk lid badge.
From testimonies, early pictures and brochures, we know that '55 cars did not have a badge yet. The trunk lid badge, and the Bertone fender badges were not yet listed in the 10/1956 catalog either.

So the trunk lid badge may have been introduced late 1956 indeed, the year you mentioned in your former post . I couldn't find the exact date or chassis number of that introduction yet. Alfa listed a trunk lid badge for the first time only in the 11/1957 catalog. (see nr 11 on the picture.) It was definitely a badge that had no ring. That badge even had another Alfa number than the later 'badge + ring set' in later catalogs.

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In my opinion, that first badge probably became the centre part of the later 'two parts badge set' . Otherwise there would be still another unknown enameled badge to be found. That would be already a third one ?

I know the story that only the Veloce had the badge without ring from many years ago yet, but up to know I haven't found any official Alfa proof of that, neither that the catalog was wrong thereby. Of course it is always possible that for race purpose the Veloces didn't kept the outer ring, maybe it was removed for gaining weight indeed, but this would than be for later cars that had originally the badge + ring set yet I think.
Any remarks or additions always welcome.


Thierry
 
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