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Discussion Starter #1
Putting aside the new GTA and GTAM show cars...the Giulia is getting long in the tooth. There
should be something going on at Alfa...or at least there should be if they plan on staying in business.

My lease is up in January. Where is the coupe? Or a 4 cylinder hp upgrade? There has to be something
in the works or Alfa is (once again) dead in the US market. Nobody buys an Alfa because it now has Apple Play.
I went by the dealer and it was like funeral...salespeople standing around like deer in the headlights.

Have the French bought the company and the next Alfa will be the 504? Craigslist in Los Angeles is packed
full of lease turn ins...and they sit there, unsold.

Does anyone have any good news about a light at the end of the tunnel?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What can I say? I've owned Alfas for over 40 years. They make great cars but they suck at business. It is up to Alfa to stay in business. We've all put our money on the table and bought their products. It isn't about COVID 19...Alfa has been failing on its own for decades. You can't survive as a car company showing old movies of Nuvolari and not updating your product or providing new ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dude? Fellow Alfa fan, I'm not bitter. I am disappointed...and a little sad. This history of Alfa as a company...in Europe and in the USA ...is one of making wonderful cars, only to be unable to follow through. That has nothing to do with the current market. It is the decades-long problem with Alfa's business management. Maybe its an Italian thing. The entire Italian auto industry, save Ferrari, has been shrinking into non existence. When I was in Italy in 2019, I was shocked at what a small percentage of cars on the road were Italian made. Putting aside my dislike of many modern automotive technology foolishness, the Giulia is a great car. When I took delivery of my 2017 Giulia in Feb. 2018, it had been sitting on the dealership lot for a year. Alfa's Fiat-Chrysler owners are failing the company. Now if anyone reading this has some good news, please share it.
 

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This Covid 19 situation has totally spooked the socio-economic group who buy expensive cars. They're just not going to buy anything. That is a VERY serious problem.

Not only is there no light at the end of this tunnel there is no end to this tunnel. Until governments stop this lunatic response to this disease we are all doomed to loss of wealth unprecedented in our generation. Our parents' generation were babies the last time the wealth of the world took this type of hit. In the 30's the world's governments followed very bad advice from economists and bankers who, frankly, knew the square root of FA but firmly believed they knew what needed doing. They implemented a severe contraction in the world's money supply, severely restricted trade and deflated the currency right at the time they needed serious inflation. These guys relied on statistical methods using bad formulae on worse data.

In response to this "pandemic" which really isn't a pandemic (maximum infection rates appear to be less than 8% and of those only persons already very ill or very old or both are at any serious risk) Governments relied on the medical profession for economic advice. That profession has a long history of accumulating bad data and applying bonkers analysis to that data.

This was a VERY bad idea. The medical profession uses statistical analysis instead of using proper science. They always get the wrong answers doing this.

The Giulia is not "long in the tooth". Built on a brand new platform it has years of development ahead of it. Besides, you're wanting Alfa to change what started out as a very good car indeed. What's to change?
 

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Dude? Fellow Alfa fan, I'm not bitter. I am disappointed...and a little sad.
I am sorry, John, it does not read that way with me. I've read just about everyone of your posts regarding the warranty work on your car. Your posts came across as angry and in some there is criticism of the Italian culture. You were treated more than fairly.

This history of Alfa as a company...in Europe and in the USA ...is one of making wonderful cars, only to be unable to follow through. That has nothing to do with the current market. It is the decades-long problem with Alfa's business management. Maybe its an Italian thing. The entire Italian auto industry, save Ferrari, has been shrinking into non existence.
What have they not followed through with? They fixed your car at no charge to you. To me, that shows that they honor the warranty. Many other marquess have been shrinking out of existence.

When I was in Italy in 2019, I was shocked at what a small percentage of cars on the road were Italian made.
So what? it's the same in the US and other countries. What is wrong with Italians wanting to drive Japanese, Korean and German made cars?

Putting aside my dislike of many modern automotive technology foolishness, the Giulia is a great car. When I took delivery of my 2017 Giulia in Feb. 2018, it had been sitting on the dealership lot for a year. Alfa's Fiat-Chrysler owners are failing the company. Now if anyone reading this has some good news, please share it.
Why did you go to the dealership? I thought you were going to sell the car as soon as you got it back from the warranty work? It's very confusing, John.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I went to the dealership to see what was going on, to ask about new models, to get a sense of how healthy the place looked. And yes there are very real cultural differences in how cars are made and the companies manage themselves. The Japanese, Germans, French, American and Italian car companies have their own styles and way of doing things. Watching F1 gives you a nice piece of cultural theatre. I am still in litigation with FCA so I have not sold the car. If very few people, including Italians, buy fewer and fewer Italian made cars, that is called a death spiral. If you read all my posts you will see I have been a big fan of my Giulia (minus the techno-BS) but some of my fears about Alfa management in the US market have proved true. The virus has effected that last five months...Alfa's issues predate that. Yes the Giulia is a great platform, but that doesn't mean you don't upgrade the product as time goes by. Compare all the other competition and what they have done in their models over the same four years with what Alfa has done...and Alfa is stagnant. Compare today's Alfa to the Alfa of the 60s and 70s...to the development of the original Giulias from the 1300, to the TI and 1600 and 1750 and 2000, all from the mid-sixties to the early seventies. Alfa is not developing the Giulia and that is not good. Even if Alfa brought in a coupe based on the Giulietta, that would have attracted an even wider group of customers...with a car far more accessible than the 4C...which was a nice publicity stunt but not very practical to most car buyers. But they haven't and won't. The company is suffering from bad management and that is the simple truth.
 

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Regardless of the present problem with the severely reduced sales of new automobiles from just about every manufacturer due to the virus pandemic (can't blame Fiat/Alfa for that), it must be said that Fiat/Alfa has always been deficient in US marketing, dealership quality and skills, and number of available different sized models and colors. They could really take lessons from some of the Asians for that.

The Alfa models we have bought through the decades, 55 years so far, have been pretty satisfying, and have generally driven each for years with satisfaction, pleased enough with what each model was. Neither of us really feeling the need for the next new version of most things. Lol, neither have we really had the money, or at least wanting to spend it, to continually buy up for somebody's idea of improvement.

But then again, Italian cars in general (meaning mainly Fiat Controlled products) except for maybe Ferrari, have not been in for a very long time, here and abroad, esp here in the US. I mainly blame the Fiat Company for this lack of past marketing and dealership/support skills.
 

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If you've driven Alfas for 40 years you should be used to all the suckage around sales and service. ARI (from what I hear) gave great suckage, ARDONA gave great suckage, and FCA excels at suckage. Same ol' same ol', everything old is new, nothing new under the sun, etc. When you go all Eeyore on us it makes me want to ask: where have you been for the last 40 years??
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think 40 years of buying and driving Alfas gives anyone that right to say anything they want to. I would love to see Alfa succeed this time. The car is great. But so was my Alfetta Sport Sedan and my Milanos and my 164. Unfortunately most of those have turned to rust or dust. And with enough corporate neglect, the Giulia will end up the same. I'd like to see evidence that the company is doing more than just looking for a buyer to unload the company on to. I'm going to bail on this place for a while. All the koolaid is giving me a headache.
 

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That's true, John, you have the right to say anything that you want to. As sportbiker said, with as long as you have been around Alfa Romeo, you already know that the corporate culture isn't going to change. My philosophy is, if you buy and Alfa, you accept the way the company is run.

I had an Alfetta sedan through college. The nearest dealership was 125 miles away. Each time I had an issue, I drove the car to the dealership for service. They bent over backwards to help me. On a few occasions, the tech came in on Saturday to work on my car. After college, I moved to Dallas and got excellent service from a local dealership. The last time I used a dealership tech was in the nineties in Dallas. I got excellent service there as well.

I personally have not been up close to any new Alfa Romeos in decades. From what I hear, the fit and finish on the cars is up there with the rest of the premium car manufacturers. FCA offers a competitive warranty. I don't really see what the issue is.

As I stated earlier, you were treated more than fairly over that engine mishap. Then, you had another issue and the car got fixed. FCA has honored the warranty and done what any other manufacturer would have done.
 

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There is one thing the Italians have done better than us, actually every other industrialized country has done it better than us and it's managing Covid 19. Just look at the graphs! We are last and last by a large margin last in new infections, hospitalizations, total cases, and deaths. There is no national policy except denial. That is why the showrooms are empty.
 

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Is it irrelevant that the Alfa name (brand) has been around for more than a century?

Whatever criticisms may be levelled against current management the brand remains successful. The current car is excellent by any objective measure and outstanding from a purely aesthetic viewpoint.
 

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The next models will be SUVs, CUV-C (Tonale, based on 15 years old Punto/Corsa/Doblo platform) and CUV-B (it will have new platform shared with jeep and next generation FIATs)
CUV-C has been designed since April 2018, CUV-B been designed since April 2019.

Tonale is scheduled for production in autumn of 2021. Smaller SUV scheduled for 2022-2023.

Giulia will have a facelift in 2021.

Alfetta, stretched Giulia, Giulia Coupe and 8C were cancelled about 2-3 years ago.

Sent from my motorola one vision using Tapatalk
 

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The next models will be SUVs, CUV-C (Tonale, based on 15 years old Punto/Corsa/Doblo platform) and CUV-B (it will have new platform shared with jeep and next generation FIATs)
I've heard different. Tonale will be on the FCA Small Wide platform that also sees duty as the Jeep Compass; the next Alfa to follow (B-CUV) is speculated to be on PSA's eCMP (Common Modular Platform), assuming the merger goes through. The DS3 Crossback E-Tense uses the same platform.
 

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Going back to the very first post, an Alfa version of a modern Peugeot 504 could be a very fine vehicle. The 504 was a design classic (by Pininfarina) and still widely in use throughout Africa. It won European car of the year at launch (beating the Jag XJ6 into second place would you believe). Mine looked and drove great. So a sportified AR version of a modern 504 would be pretty good so far as I'm concerned.

According to Top Gear the smaller Peugeot Hybrid/electric models are reputedly the best driving, with best dynamics and all round best choice currently. So a model or two down the line, if you've got to share a platform then that may not be a bad place to start. I know Tonale will use the Jeep platform but I have faith that AR will produce a good version. It already looks pretty good and we should wait and see how good it is.

The AR product range is limited at the moment but the products (giulietta excepted) are actually pretty good. It's other stuff that needs fixing (dealer coverage, dealer service) but everything is product led - you don't get to fix those issues unless you have decent product.

Both models are at logical points in their lives, Giulia with a mid life refresh, I imagine similar for Stelvio coming. They don't need replacing yet. What is needed is bigger selling models in other sectors. Nobody is selling many cars at the moment.
 

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If the 164 proved anything it was that sharing a platform does not affect the brand character of the car, if engineered correctly. The platform nowadays is mainly the engineered crash structure. Even suspension hard points don't need to remain the same. Somewhat ironically this results from the absurdly over built crash structure. The engineers are pretty much free to locate suspension mounting (and jacking points!) anywhere they like because the crash structure is so rigid. Cars and passenger rated crossover/SUV are so strong and so heavy you no longer even need to know how to drive to remain safe.

So much so that I find the current fad for cycling truly absurd. You are orders of magnitude safer driving a car. So much for healthy exercise.
 

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Going back to the very first post, an Alfa version of a modern Peugeot 504 could be a very fine vehicle.
do you mean Peugeot 508? Im not very keen to see any Peugeot based Alfas. And they are all FWD platforms. Would be very embarrassing when your neighbour says your Alfa is based on Peugeot....Too pity the coming B suv will be PSA.-.
 
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