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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well folks, that Giulia Spider on e-bay at least has me thinking this will all be worth it someday.., $38,000.00 bid!! I have been working on my 1962 Spider (Manufactured December 1961) I think since before Pathung started his. I am a little behind and a little discouraged too. Although at least my motor is complete, courtesy of Dean Russell. As the photos show, my car is pretty much scraped / stripped to bare metal (by hand) except for the doors, hood and boot lids, which will be dipped, I think. Rocker repairs are in process, thanks Bill Gilham for all of your advice. Why discouraged you may ask? I just want to get the thing in primer, and I must finish the prep work to the undercarriage first. I am at the wire brushing / phosphoric acid wash stage. Oh well, at least my painter - a real pro - is just a few doors down. In fact, the car is on his cart, we will just roll it down there in a few weeks I hope. Car is all original with the 1300 motor, basically a one owner car when I got it showing just under 24,000 miles. It was parked since around 1985, and the condition of the motor was the reason why. Basically my process has been much the same as Pathung's, and I have enjoyed watching his posts which somewhat parallel my own.
 

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that looks like a great project! You removed all that paint by hand?:eek::eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yup, by hand! So far I have used 2 1/2 gallons of aircraft stripper - awesome and scarry stuff. The large expanses go very fast, it is all of the little nooks and crannies that are a bear. The dash is almost perfect, so I am thinking of leaving it. The interior surfaces of the hood and boot are good too, and I may save those. But at this point dipping those items is looking really attractive - I am tired of stripping. The undercoating was also removed by hand - heat gun and scraper. Not only am I cheap but most of the best advice I have recieved discouraged sand blasting or dipping the car. I have less than $100.00 in stripping costs so far, not counting the innumerable man hours. Labor of love, right?
 

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VERRY nice!

I see no reason to be discouraged! Heavens, the horrid work is about done! If you have all the bits, this should be a lot easier from this point on. As Patrick will attest, the job always looks "not too bad" until you get started. It's mostly a matter of patience and total attention to detail. The results speak for themselves with your stripping progress. DO NOT count the hours, just admire the result. The 38,000$ has little to do with a job done correctly. How many "nice" older Alfa's have you seen that really were not all that "nice" when compared to the extensive labors you and Patrick have expended? Some of the detail work was lacking when Alfa put these together to begin with. They were not intended to last 50 or 60 years. Both your and Patricks examples are about guarenteed immortality now due to your labors. My car is an unrestored '65 1600 Spider Veloce {Ausca spider} on, I think, page 3 of Patricks 101 gallery. It has been maintained in as close to it's original condition, by me, since new. Some racing dings have been repainted, but 90% of the paint is original, as is the interior, with new foam rubber. I have preserved it and driven it for 42 years. Guess I must like it. When I work on it, it does have irritating quirks, but over all, a very satisfying automobile. One can understand that you would wish the job done, but then what would you do;:confused: probably another! Best, :DGordon Raymond
 

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Yup, by hand! So far I have used 2 1/2 gallons of aircraft stripper - awesome and scarry stuff. The large expanses go very fast, it is all of the little nooks and crannies that are a bear. The dash is almost perfect, so I am thinking of leaving it. The interior surfaces of the hood and boot are good too, and I may save those. But at this point dipping those items is looking really attractive - I am tired of stripping. The undercoating was also removed by hand - heat gun and scraper. Not only am I cheap but most of the best advice I have recieved discouraged sand blasting or dipping the car. I have less than $100.00 in stripping costs so far, not counting the innumerable man hours. Labor of love, right?
+1 on the VERRY nice work. I did essentially the same work on my '62 Giulia Sprint (between '90 and '94), including knocking the rust off the underside using wire wheels (a couple of dozen:eek:). One difference seems to be that your metal is in better shape than mine -- doesn't appear to be much ugliness hiding in yours. Now that I've had more than 10 years to forget all the tedious parts of the Sprint restoration, I'm trying to get psyched to start on my #1 Veloce (#2 is an identical '65 Veloce, which is a nice driver). Since I've had #1 for 31 years, and I'm retired now, I suppose the time is right. Maybe sometime near the end of the decade it will roll out into the light. Meanwhile, I'm continuing the unending parts scrounging phase I've been in for 20 years or so in order to have all the hard-to-get bits on hand. Seems like a lot more stuff is available these days -- gotta love the repro market.
Anyway, thanks for keeping us updated on your progress. And hang in there -- some day the fun part will arrive (attaching all those clean, shiny parts onto the clean, shiny chassis). And keep the pix coming -- they're a help / inspiration to the rest of us in the trenches.
Jim
 

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Great work!
I have been doing a mechanical strip of my '57 off-and-on for the last 3 years. I use aircraft stripper and sand paper. Since the "event horizon" for this work is so long, I spray a light coat of primer to fend off the surface rust.
 

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John H. raised a point that also concerns me, rust and primer. Your chassis seems to have lots of bare metal exposed, possibly susceptible to "flash" rust... are you planning to primer these areas soon?

Not sandblasting the car is definitely the right thing to do; I really took a risk there, for not knowing better. I would however use other types of media, to ensure that no warping occurs, that the surface remains easy to paint (the sand pock-marked it), and most importantly, that all nooks and crannies are taken care of, which is one of your major concerns. I've heard that one needs to be careful about residues left from dipping eating into your fresh, new paint, of which I'm certain you are aware.

Don't feel discouraged because you're not progressing as fast as you'd like. I made some headway because I farmed out a lot of the work. I stripped the car of its parts and scraped off the undercoating myself (these two stages alone took me more than a year to complete), but farmed out the next few stages: blasting to get the paint/rust off, and necessary body work performed by my painter, Andy. These are the stages you're at, and unfortunately they're also the most tedious and time-consuming. Once your car's all painted, I wouldn't be surprised if you leave me in the dust putting everything back on the car and getting it back on the road! I don't have a lot of the hard-core machine tools at my disposal, so it takes me a while to refurbish parts, requiring lots of help from friends around; and that's in addition to making copious mistakes that need corrections along the way. I'd like to ready the car for next year's Concorso Italiano, but who knows!

Completing every stage and even attaching a mere screw gives me a palpable sense of satisfaction (I gloat to my wife about it but she, like any normal person, is never impressed that the car has one additional screw in it), so I've since learned to enjoy these little moments on my own, and not think too far ahead as to when the car might be finished. One screw at a time..., and then, one car at a time.

Please keep us posted on your progress, as we're all picture/story-hogs of anything-Giulietta. We're really all in this together, because your triumphs make our days that much brighter - keep up the great work!
 

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John H. raised a point that also concerns me, rust and primer. Your chassis seems to have lots of bare metal exposed, possibly susceptible to "flash" rust... are you planning to primer these areas soon?

Patrick,
I think ugo44 should be all right without priming the stripped metal since he noted he is using a "phosphoric acid wash". This is a metal prep that removes flash rust and deposits a coating that will preserve the metal for a few months. I did the same thing when I stripped my '62 Sprint, and it worked fine. If surface rust creeps back in, re-washing with the metal prep takes the rust back off. And for the hard-to-get-to rust in seams, etc., applying one of the rust encapsulating paints (like POR15) seems to work.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks all for the comments and encouragement. Just today I was wire brushing and acid washing parts of the undercarriage. Seems to be working well. Here are two more quick pics; one of the finished motor and one of what is left of the original tool kit. I have also been busy doing some sandblasting of the various suspension and axle components, courtesy of a good neighbors sand blasting cabinet. More to come...
cheers,
Richard
 

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John H. raised a point that also concerns me, rust and primer. Your chassis seems to have lots of bare metal exposed, possibly susceptible to "flash" rust... are you planning to primer these areas soon?

Patrick,
I think ugo44 should be all right without priming the stripped metal since he noted he is using a "phosphoric acid wash". This is a metal prep that removes flash rust and deposits a coating that will preserve the metal for a few months. I did the same thing when I stripped my '62 Sprint, and it worked fine. If surface rust creeps back in, re-washing with the metal prep takes the rust back off. And for the hard-to-get-to rust in seams, etc., applying one of the rust encapsulating paints (like POR15) seems to work.
Jim
Phospheric acid is the same thing as Rust convertor, try Castrol Rustillio DWX30 on bare metal, it is a mobile dewatering fluid on evaporation of the solvent deposits a ultra-thin protective film.

Not sure you can get this in the US but here is a link anyway http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetailmin.do?categoryId=82958451&contentId=6004410
 

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Hey, this is a Giulia right? What happened to the original 1600cc engine?
BTW, that trunk area almost looks too good to paint!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No, this is a Giulietta. Original, except for internals, 1300. I am guessing some might see that plastic fan and automatically think it a 1600? Or, perhaps the larger taillight openings, also sometimes asociated with a Giulia, but the later Giulietta's had them too. I did not include a hood shot but it is minus the scoop. I also did not include a shot of the seats, complete with their (Giulia?) pleats! I have seen quite a few later Giulietta's with the pleats.
A note about the motor; Mr. Russell noticed that the head was one of later manufacture, though sometimes found on later Giulietta's, that is very similar to the ones used on 1300 GT Juniors. So, he matched it up with a set of pistons from a Junior. He seems to think it will be a "real good runner".
Thanks,
Richard (work progressing on the undercarriage)
 

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Phil
What is it about the engine pic that makes you think its not original?
I misread the first post. He made a comment about a Giulia on ebay, not this car.
 

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Hi Richard, yes I have been following your blog on the BB and didn't add my two cents worth because others had provide good advice. I don't think I would dip the doors. I did not dip anything on my car except suspension pieces. The liquids stripper gets into everything and could cause you problems down the road, i.e. paint corrosion, plus they rinse with water, And guess what, the water stays in those seams and creates more rust. I would have them sand blasted then use a rust converter like Eastwood sells (Eastwood Rust Converter - Convert Rust in One Step) on all the seams then seal all the seams with a either Eastwood or POR15 product (Rust Repair - Auto Body Rust Treatment - Corrosion Treatment - Eastwood, POR 15 Paint ? Paint Over Rust ? POR15 Rust Preventive Paint Instructions). I would not media blast other parts of the car as you WILL have media blowing around forever. It could even blow while painting and cause problems. As for the dash etc, paint everything. It's the jewel of the interior. You sit there driving and it's all close-up in front of you. Use a good painter. Anybody can paint. It's the prep, and finish cut and buff that makes the difference and costs the most. There are undercoating sprays to duplicate the sound deadening inside the doors. As for the no paint behind the hinge and inside the hinge pocket, if you want a total 100 point trailer queen, never driven then bolt it all together paint everything. I don't know of any good body shops that don't remove doors for correct body and paint work. No way to reach those areas correctly -- door bottom and sills? If you want everything painted they would have to reattach after painting and add one step of painting over the hinge sill area. Depending on how straight the car in they might have to shim the doors a little to get door gaps correct. My painter painted the hinges, doors, and body separately, then reinstalled everything using the replated original bolts I provided.

Bill G has been a great resource for me when I was in the midst of the project, especially for electrical help.

Good luck with your project.

Cheers,

George
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PS, I am also posting this on the BB incase at some time in the future it might be of help to others.


On Apr 16, 2011, at 11:02 AM, Richard Rose wrote:

Greetings George,
My name is Richard Rose and I know you through the alfabb as well as the 750-101 group. I posted a couple of questions to the group regarding my cars restoration and thought I might get better advice or answers from you.
Did you chemically dip any parts of your car? I am considering this for my doors, and perhaps hood and trunk lids. I have hand stripped the rest of the car, including the exterior surfaces of the hood and trunk lids. I know about the concerns with chemical dipping these cars, but the doors especially look safe to me. Cheap and fast too.
One of the questions I had was regarding the door hinges. These have unpainted mating surfaces - hinge to car / hinge to door. Not even any primer in these areas, or in the hinge box's for that matter. How did you handle this with your repaint?
If you took your doors down to bare metal (?) what did you use to replace the painted, textured material on the inside of the door skins? I assume his stuff doubles as rust proofing / sound deadening?
My car BTW is a '61 Spider Normale. I am the third owner, though the original owner had it for only a year or two. Under 25,000 miles, which seems accurate.
I was tempted to try to keep the original interior paint (red) as it is in very good shape, but there are some signs of rust developing on the door interiors, thus the interest in dipping them.
Hey, your car is gorgeous and I think you worked with Bill Gillham on some things. Bill has been a great source of information for me too. I considered asking him these questions but I may have bugged him enough!
Here is a link to my cars progress - or lack thereof.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giulietta-giulia-1954-65/44241-another-spider-resto.html
Thanks,
Richard Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So, I was all set to have the doors dipped - and e-coated at the same place. Expert advice suggests this is not the way to go. So I am back to stripping by hand. First 2 pics of the inside of door. Lots of filler there from the factory to level things out? Pic 3 of door skin - clean as a whistle. Pics 4 & 5 of hinge before/after a quick sandblast.
Since I was last posting on the progress of this car I got the gearbox back from Dean Russell, complete with newer style synchros. Motor was previously finished. Next up for Dean, putting the rear axle assembly back together.
Cheers,
Richard
 

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Your doors came out very nice! No interior rust? Usually the little drain holes get plugged and the bottoms get rusty.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Gordon,
Not even a hint of rust that I can find. And this is the passenger side door, where the rockers were the worse off of the two. All those curb side puddles I guess. The bottom track is really clean. The spray on texture inside the door came off the same as the undercoating, but easier. A little hot gun and scraper and it was gone. The one place there was some minor surface rust was where this stuff stopped short of raching all the way up / under the windowsill folds. No primer up in there either. It's clean now though.
 

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Thats great! You have a good one. Few realize that the design and structure of these cars was intended to last only a few years with normal use. Here we are 45+ years later, and some (not many) still have little rust. At least you know that with your efforts, and your cars collector value, it now can never become crusher fodder!
 
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