Another in-tank FP bites the d... er, gas

originaly they were made by AC Delco (odd, I would have thought Bosch, but one I saw offered in original alfa box, was an AC delco)
but nowadays the pumps you find are made by Airtex, Delphi, Meat&Doria, Mecar etc, depending where in the world you look.

AWItalian should have an in-tank pump in stock (at least showing up on their ebay store, if you search the alfa PN# alfa 60518556 )

I agree with what Dom said and can tell you that I have seen some premature failures also. I guess I should have tracked which brand they were.
Got my last one from Classic Alfa in the UK. Running well but it came with no sock filter and no screws which surprised me.

I forgot about Classic Alfa...I'll look at them.

Do you guys think that it's possible to put extra strain on the in-tank pump if something in the evap system is clogged? I've replaced all of the hoses a few years back and cleaned off the canister; it's unrusted externally but could be clogged inside.

the same pump goes in a volvo240 type car..

is your tank under pressure or vacuum? Does your gas cap pop off when you remove it after driving? Does it feel like there is a vacuum when you try to remove it? If neither of these occurs, I doubt that is causing you issues.

pantera928 said:

is your tank under pressure or vacuum? Does your gas cap pop off when you remove it after driving? Does it feel like there is a vacuum when you try to remove it? If neither of these occurs, I doubt that is causing you issues.

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It used to- I've been removing the cap after driving for a while to check, and there isn't a pressure issue now. What led me to find that the in-tank pump was a-wol was that the car is hard to start after sitting, as if there's vapor lock, and smells of fuel when it does. The engine will cut out when taking corners, especially when under half-tank, and the engine will cut out momentarily on hard accel as if it's not getting fuel. Idles and cruises great. I was thinking it was related to evap and started removing the cap to test it out, but I don't really get a pressure or vacuum from the cap. Might be due to intank pump not running? Not sure.
In tank pump makes no noise when heard from stethoscope. It's getting 14V.

Sounds like the in tank pump is definitely not working. The half full tank thing you mentioned is typical if the pump is out. I have had no problem with a full tank but below 1/2, that is what you get with a bad in tank pump.
It could also be as simple as a disconnected wire to the pump. Sometimes that hose between the pump and the sending unit comes lose and pulls the wires lose. The old original style sending units had a bracket to help hold the pump in place. I have not found a replacement that allows the bracket to be used properly as the design is different. Looks like the pump has to hang on by the hose and a prayer without it. I have modified the attachment of the bracket and used it on the replacement units. PITA!
Maybe someone else out there has found a better sending unit?

not getting fuel out of the tank? but the pimp is running? check the ' stepped ' hose inside the tank from the pump to the feeder metal tube

spiderserie4 said:

easiest test is to apply 12v straight from the battery to the pump.....as the engine is not running you should clearly hear it hum...if there is no sound the pump is dead.
if you drive the car with a bad in tank pump, it will put a big strain on the main pump and that will be next to go.
best just replace it.

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I should do that- I have a power probe and didn't think to use it. I'm pretty sure the pumps dead. I remember a few months ago, I could hear the external pump making noise when pulling into the garage. Tank close to empty. It's probably been intermittent or gone for a while now. New one on the way.

I just replaced it two years ago, along with a new float. I purchased a whole new pump/float assembly, and the float/arm was on the wrong side. All of them were that way from the usual Alfa outlets, so I just kept my assembly and picked up a float for an MG that happened to fit on the wire. The old float was taking on gas. I also replaced the stepped hose with the new centerline hose.

Let's see if that stupid sock filter is still attached. That thing is a PITA to keep on while twisting the assembly down into the tank!

Many years ago, I owned a few Volvo 240's. There was an in tank pump and one under the drivers side. The in tank would go out on occasion and I was tired of buying a new one, so I came up with a great idea. I'd spend a few hours at the local pick a parts and buy a half dozen used pumps. I would test them at the junk yard and if it worked, I'd buy it. I came home with 7 or 8 pumps plus a couple large external pumps. From that day on, I had a supply of pumps to use for repairing on of my Volvo's.

Now that 240's are hot, you may have trouble finding them at a pick a parts yard. However, I believe it's the same pump as the 740/760 series (I owned one of those cars too). Buy it from the junk yard for $10 or buy a new one for $100 ish.

spiderserie4 said:
easiest test is to apply 12v straight from the battery to the pump.....as the engine is not running you should clearly hear it hum...if there is no sound the pump is dead.
if you drive the car with a bad in tank pump, it will put a big strain on the main pump and that will be next to go.
best just replace it.

Dead or disconnected. I have seen both. Either way, you are going into the tank. Good luck.

autobroker said:

Many years ago, I owned a few Volvo 240's. There was an in tank pump and one under the drivers side. The in tank would go out on occasion and I was tired of buying a new one, so I came up with a great idea. I'd spend a few hours at the local pick a parts and buy a half dozen used pumps. I would test them at the junk yard and if it worked, I'd buy it. I came home with 7 or 8 pumps plus a couple large external pumps. From that day on, I had a supply of pumps to use for repairing on of my Volvo's.

Now that 240's are hot, you may have trouble finding them at a pick a parts yard. However, I believe it's the same pump as the 740/760 series (I owned one of those cars too). Buy it from the junk yard for $10 or buy a new one for $100 ish.

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If you look around on generic automotive parts houses websites, you can find all of the applications for the pump model number also. Our pumps go into BMW's and Porsches, also. The real controversy is the price. Do you think that the higher price is a better quality unit? Stock? While there are probably a few manufacturers, I believe that my $40 pump from Rockauto (Delphi) is the same one that Centerline is selling for ~$80, as well as Classic Alfa for close to the same. My prev. pump was a Spectra sourced Locally. Before that in late '18 I bought an Airtex E8778 based on what others bought here on the BB.

pantera928 said:

spiderserie4 said:
easiest test is to apply 12v straight from the battery to the pump.....as the engine is not running you should clearly hear it hum...if there is no sound the pump is dead.
if you drive the car with a bad in tank pump, it will put a big strain on the main pump and that will be next to go.
best just replace it.

Dead or disconnected. I have seen both. Either way, you are going into the tank. Good luck.

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I'm 95% of the time in learning mode on this forum and have nothing to add, but since I just went through this I figured I'd toss this on the pile.

To add to Dom and Greg's points: On my "dead in-tank pump thread" (Fuel pump - is new sound air entering, pump dying...) @SkiBum mentioned to, when jumping the battery to the pump, pump the fuel out to make sure that even if it was running that it was pumping fuel. This ended up being my issue.

I took the hose coming off the fuel pump in the trunk, disconnected it from the hard line that it goes to and put it into a container. Then I jumped the in-tank fuel pump and although it did run, not only did it sound horrible, but no fuel came out.

Then when I pulled the pump I found there was no filter, the pump itself was filled with junk gumming up the works and the stepped hose was dry and cracked.

BUT once I fixed those things - the pump works like a charm so I didn't need to replace it after all.

Just my (new) .02.

check the stepped hose carefully for cracks, and replace the regular hose clamps with F.I. style clamps

As Lantheume pointed out, make sure you use the filter on the pump or you'll clog up the pump and burn it out. I know this from experience!

Quick update- With the hot lead unplugged, I measure 12V. When plugged in, the fuel pump hot lead measures 10.9V. I can't really hear the in tank pump running, though. So I shut off the car and apply 12V with my power probe directly to the pump hot spade terminal, and I can hear it run. dimly. I can hear fuel flowing into the tank, also.
If my pump is dropping a volt, I'll bet it's clogged or not up to par. It may get worse with use; the car will cut out a bit going around corners and when accelerating, especially with a partial tank. Doesn't do it when the drive is just starting out.
I tried to remove the pump, but since the tank is full, I need to drive it a while...I was making a mess...will try again after driving a few days.

John533i said:

Quick update- With the hot lead unplugged, I measure 12V. When plugged in, the fuel pump hot lead measures 10.9V. I can't really hear the in tank pump running, though. So I shut off the car and apply 12V with my power probe directly to the pump hot spade terminal, and I can hear it run. dimly. I can hear fuel flowing into the tank, also.
If my pump is dropping a volt, I'll bet it's clogged or not up to par. It may get worse with use; the car will cut out a bit going around corners and when accelerating, especially with a partial tank. Doesn't do it when the drive is just starting out.
I tried to remove the pump, but since the tank is full, I need to drive it a while...I was making a mess...will try again after driving a few days.

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I had a similar problem(under 1/2 tank & fuel starvation) so pulled the in tank pump looking for a crack in the stepped hose. No crack, but did find some gas in the plastic float, so replaced both. Car runs fine, but due to Hurricane Laura have not been out for test drive. Got both from Vick Auto in Texas; Matt says it is an Airtex. Also am replacing the
under car pump & large filter. In tank pump did not come with fuel filter sock; bought one from NAPA store, but did not know the new stepped hose has to be exact or less length than old one or assembly will not go in tank. Love to see a video of the many positions used to get new assembly into tank! ChiefBre