Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
First day of open viewing cars today so I thought I’d share a few pictures.
I was unsure of the one Sprint’s information windshield tag and listing at the Gooding auction tent. It listed it as a “1965 Giulietta Sprint 1300.” Then read that it had been “updated to a 1600 with a 5-speed.” The rear license plate was a 1963 Washington plate. Hmmm? I asked questions and they told me they would look into it at the archive desk. AR385591. I don't have my Fusi. Any thoughts? F977B6A2-8D14-479D-A530-4CD60C50B2A2.jpeg IMG_5705.JPG IMG_5713.JPG IMG_5715.JPG IMG_5718.JPG
Anyway, enjoy. I’ll post more later.
 

Attachments

·
Richard Jemison
Joined
·
7,381 Posts
looking in the d`Amico/Tabucchi 2 volumn history of Alfa production cars the Giulia Sprint`s Veloce`s production was only in 1962..& 1963....(1600 normale/not Veloce). The 105series Sprint GT started production in 1964.
There was no mention of later versions, although it was common marketing to build smaller engine versions due to higher taxes on larger engines. ...hmmn...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
Clearly Giulia - and not Giulietta - dashboard, doorcards and steering wheel. My guess is that this is simply a '62 - '63 101 Giulia Sprint and the Goodings catalog just has the model year and name wrong. Not uncommon.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
That was my guess so I alerted the archives desk there. Either way, the info is wrong in its description. It’s also wrong in their $75 catalog.
In Goodings defense, they just rely on the information that the seller provides. If the seller says their Giulia has a 1300 cc engine and was built in 1965, Goodings just prints that; they don't take the time to check it. You could argue that for $75 the catalog should be perfect, but insisting on perfection would delay printing the catalog until after the auction and that wouldn't be good either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I stand corrected on this:
Apparently the aforementioned Sprint was actually one of over 400 1965 Giulietta Sprints ordered originally with a 1300. I had no idea that they existed to buy in that form in 1965 and were not called Giulias during and after 1962. Learn something new about Alfas every day.

It’s a great venue here and much lower key than at the Ritz. Crazy over there tonight. Great to see some Giuliettas in the flesh.

Also this at Gooding:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Wonder what Greig Smith will have to add to this?. Regardless, it's beautiful car!

Thanks for the report.

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The Sprint had the best paint work, a few minor flaws under it, around the hood, but a very pretty car. Well done. Even my wife who is not in to cars, loved it.

The black Veloce was also a very nice car. It was interesting to see what were the differences and similarities within a year of mine being built. It was great to have there as an example for my better half to see what a Spider looks like actually finished.

I hope they all do very well in the auction today. The only other Gooding Alfa I saw was a red 8C. Sotheby’s had one too. Sorry, straying from the 750/101 Forum a bit there.


EC315C08-E428-4581-B4A0-80AEACA4BBF7.jpeg EB0BAD4A-9031-4E8C-B071-C627E496033A.jpeg F1EE88F3-ECFB-4AF0-AEED-5BAF11D8C7B0.jpeg 75E4CAEA-7054-4D86-9851-59E2733C576B.jpeg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
933 Posts
The small engine 1300 cars were the original Nord engines and owners paid the same percentage purchase tax as the 1600 engine cars.
It's miss information that 'it was common marketing to build smaller engine versions due to higher taxes on larger engines. ...hmmn...'

What was going on was a multi faceted approach by the Italian government who owned Alfa Romeo.
The owner of a car had to pay purchase tax and ownership tax (registration cost/year).
Fuel was so heavily taxed in Italy in the 60's/70's you were forced to try and get employer km/mileage credits.
Employer km/mileage credits were only available for cars with engines like the Alfa romeo 1290cc and 1570cc cars.

What was also a contributing factor was with the new Auto Strata network connecting most major cities in Italy, being near completed around the early to mid 60's. The car was the symbol of success for Italians in the 60's and 70's aspiring to a better life.

So if you want to phrase it correctly you have to say 'Alfa Romeo plus the Italian Government with it's laws marketed cars with small engines (e.g. Alfa Romeo 1290cc and 1570cc) so as to entice sales to owners in Italy where they can rely on/access employer km/mileage credits, thus making it possible for owners to afford to run their cars.

'Owners of smaller engine cars could rely on/access employer fuel credits thus making ownership of smaller engine cars popular, like the ~91,000 GTJ 1300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So, for the historical experts out there; Is it correctly labeled a Giulietta, or was it a Giulia originally ordered with a Nord engine? And why the 1963 Washington-issued vintage plate on it if it’s a 1965. That’s why I inquired about it, it offered up some questions. At least to me. I don’t think the owner was there to ask.

I didn’t bring my Fusi book with me on vacation to look up the chassis number. I was hoping it would answer at least if the year advertised was correct. A “1965 Giulietta” was a new one for me to experience.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
I stand corrected on this:Apparently the aforementioned Sprint was actually one of over 400 1965 Giulietta Sprints ordered originally with a 1300. I had no idea that they existed to buy in that form in 1965 and were not called Giulias during and after 1962.
I had heard about that oddball, final run of 101 Sprints - built concurrently with the 105's, came with 1300cc engines, called "Giuliettas". But did those cars have Giulia or Giulietta -style dashes, steering wheels, and door cards? Did they come with front disk brakes? I always assumed these cars' interiors look like Giuliettas, while the Goodings car looks like a Giulia.

I guess this could be an everyday 1600 Giulia Sprint, or one of these cars from the final Giulietta series with a 1600 engine swap. Do badges on the front fenders behind the wheel arches say "Giulia" or "Giulietta"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Here is the plate. Maybe the plates were the same from 1963 on for a few years and it’s just the correct plate for a ‘65. Many states did that. It has a small 1965 registration sticker on it. Both are sold online regularly.

Regardless, I’m sure someone will appreciate it and love owning and driving it. It was garnering a lot of attention. I’m sure it will show up in the Alfa Owner’s magazine’s auction results section.

Back to mud season from this... IMG_5597 2.jpg Sunday, ugh.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
The plates that said "63" were used from 63-early 65. The CFZ means it is from Spokane County. The 65 registration sticker is of the correct style. It's all plausible if not totally correct.

For your WA restored plates reference needs:

Here is the plate. Maybe the plates were the same from 1963 on for a few years and it’s just the correct plate for a ‘65. Many states did that. It has a small 1965 registration sticker on it. Both are sold online regularly.

Regardless, I’m sure someone will appreciate it and love owning and driving it. It was garnering a lot of attention. I’m sure it will show up in the Alfa Owner’s magazine’s auction results section.

Back to mud season from this... View attachment 1616110 Sunday, ugh.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Sprint AR385591 is a 1965 1300 Sprint, the Factory had dropped the Giulietta name by this time which is why there are no Giulietta scripts on the fenders. These were a tax dodge as Steve105 says. Fusi in the number list has it as a Giulietta Sprint 1300, but on page 593 it is just called a 1300 Sprint. To make matters more confusing it has a 10102 chassis designation, same as the Giulietta Sprints which went out of production in early 1962, being replaced by the 1600 Giulia Sprint which went out of production in late '63, which was in turn replaced by the 1300 Sprint in late '63.

They were essentially a continuation of the old 101 Giulia Sprint shells, engine is a 101 1300 Normale while the trim is mostly 1600 Giulia 101 Sprint. They were a mix of whatever was left in the bin and the last even had disc brakes. The boot / trunk lid wore a 1300 script to distinguish them from the 1600 Giulia Sprint that they replaced. Remembering that the 105 Series Giulia Sprint GT 1600 had been in production for 2 years by 1965, so the 101 was really an obsolete model, but two thousand of them would still be produced from '63 to '65 before Alfa launched the GT 1300 Junior in '66.

FWIW Fusi records this 1300 Sprint as 409 from the end of the run (10102*384001 to 10102*386000)

Ciao
Greig
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
They were essentially a continuation of the old 101 Giulia Sprint shells, engine is a 101 1300 Normale while the trim is mostly 1600 Giulia 101 Sprint. They were a mix of whatever was left in the bin and the last even had disc brakes.
OK, so you are saying that these continuation Giulietta Sprints could have come with Giulia Sprint dashes, steering wheels, doorcards, etc; e.g., whatever was left in the bin. That would explain the Giulia interior on the Goodings car.

Still, it seems puzzling why Alfa would have bothered building these cars. As I read Steve105's post (#11 above) he's saying that 1300cc cars were NOT a tax dodge. And even if they were, Alfa could have introduced the 1300cc 105 GT Juniors sooner - that would have been cheaper than running 101 and 105 production lines concurrently. Perhaps Bertone messed up and built 2,000 extra 101 Sprint bodies!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
Hi all,

If the car described above has a chassis number in the range of 10102.38xxxx it would probably be a Giulietta Sprint 1300 indeed. Of course it should have a 1300cc engine.
Btw, an addition from 1966 to the 1964 Giulietta mechanical parts catalog, so it is covering the complete Giulietta period, gives a new 101 numbered motorblock for the final Giulietta engines: the 00102.32001 engine, that started half 1962 until 1966. I guess we could exclude that there were ever 105 engines in the 101 model Sprints.

For who’s interested in the history of the Giulietta Sprint 1300, maybe you have some interesting details, pictures, additions, corrections etc … to share about that type of car, I opened a new thread with the tittle ‘
The history of the 1962-1965 "1300 Sprint"

so that it is easier to retrace the thread later with the ‘search community button’



Rgds,

Thierry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thanks, Thierry. I really wanted figure out that car’s history more than anything, but wanted to share the auction photos. But, you’re right, the title will not be much help in the future.

This has been a great thread from everyone’s perspective, memories, and Alfa historical documents on that Sprint. Much appreciated. Great trivia question at a future club meet!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top