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Discussion Starter #1
hello , has anyone completed or know of installing an alternate manufacturer transmission in a spyderveloce? i am tired of dealing with the oem transmission synchro's. i have a ZF in my montreal that shifts like a race car, smooth and sure at any speed of clutch shift or rpms.
 

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That would be some work.
One solution is to rebuild the trans, lightening the gears at the same time. This makes the synchros' lives easier. Good oil and careful, slow, deliberate shifting can help too. I have 60K miles on my Super's transmission, have run Redline MT-90, and it's fine.
Andrew
 

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there are threads on fitting a T5 transmission.
it requires work, adapters etc...a lot of work
search BB
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i do not want to go through the expense again and then have the return of the transmissions achilles heel . i will try and find the thread for the T5 install.
 

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there are threads on fitting a T5 transmission.it requires work, adapters etc...a lot of worksearch BB
Yea, I recall that thread. The builder made a nice adapter to link the Alfa bellhousing to the Tremec transmission. He discussed all the gearing options available to T5's, figured out what clutch disk would work, how to adapt the pilot bearing, etc. I don't recall how he handled the driveshaft.

One big hang-up was that the tunnel needed to be re-shaped for the transmission to fit. Another was getting the T5 gearshift to match the opening in the Alfa console (obviously you could run sans console, ala Duetto & Sprint GT). I don't recall if the thread ever showed a completed conversion.

Here's one thread on the subject: Another T5 Conversion Thread

 

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My guess would be that's more work and expense, but it's been done, I think by bianchi2?
Andrew
yep...though he was called Bianchi1 back then:)

the full build link is out there somewhere.....here was when it was all good to go
t5 tranny..IT FITS
 

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Yea, I recall that thread. The builder made a nice adapter to link the Alfa bellhousing to the Tremec transmission. He discussed all the gearing options available to T5's, figured out what clutch disk would work, how to adapt the pilot bearing, etc. I don't recall how he handled the driveshaft.

One big hang-up was that the tunnel needed to be re-shaped for the transmission to fit. Another was getting the T5 gearshift to match the opening in the Alfa console (obviously you could run sans console, ala Duetto & Sprint GT). I don't recall if the thread ever showed a completed conversion.

Here's one thread on the subject: Another T5 Conversion Thread

The shifter location is mostly solved by using a tailhousing from an S10 pickup (but you'd want to use a Mustang "world class" version of the transmission itself). However, some have said that this only gets you close- some trimming may be needed. The tough thing is that the T5 was very widely used, but there were lots of minor variations of the castings over the years which can impact fitment in the narrow Spider transmission tunnel. Gearing is fairly close to Alfa's.

The High $$$ solution is the Quaife sequential transmission sold by Alfaholics. It's about $9k give or take (based on current exchange rates).

I have to admit I'm not fully satisfied with any of these options. The T5 is ancient by today's standards, and I'd really like a 6 speed that has a nice cruising gear. I like shorter gearing generally, but I don't want to be turning nearly 4,000rpm on the freeway. Today's speed limits are much higher (as high as 85mph in Texas) and Alfa's gearing was more appropriate for narrow Italian roads or 55mph Interstate speeds limits of the time. The Alfaholics setup is super cool, but the price is just too high for anything but a money is no object build like the Alfaholics GTA-R.

From what I understand, the biggest obstacle to other options being available is the fact that most modern transmissions don't have removable bellhousings, and most modern bellhousings are way too big. They could be made to fit with massive firewall cutting - the "Alfararri" GTV build is doing that to fit a Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ 6-speed, but that's a bit much for someone just doing a transmission swap.You could also weld on a bellhousing I suppose. Most transmissions will also result in the shifter being in the wrong place. If anybody can think of other candidates, I'm all ears!
 

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The Alfa 6 came with a ZF transmission. Find yourself an Alfa Sei in Italy, put in a V6 and ZF. I am so tempted to put a V6 in my Duetto. Ever drive a V6 spider?
 

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Learn how to double-de-clutch ...

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i have and i do, it helps, yet still not the shift i want. i do not like to cradle the 2nd and at times third gear. as well the last rebuild and installation, the reverse gear now jumps out of gear while reversing, never had that problem with my spyder, my wifes graduate of the same year 85 has had it since we purchased it new, and dealership was never ever able to correct it completely. the regular gremlins of owning an alfa are fine, this transmission gremlin has taken the fun out of driving it.
 

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The Alfa 6 came with a ZF transmission. Find yourself an Alfa Sei in Italy, put in a V6 and ZF. I am so tempted to put a V6 in my Duetto. Ever drive a V6 spider?
i saw one here in toronto it was very very quick! i had trouble losing in him off my tail with my montreal.
 

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i saw one here in toronto it was very very quick! i had trouble losing in him off my tail with my montreal.
sorry forgot to add, the alfa 6 ZF was automatic, was not aware the manual was as well? i see the two options with the R gear, the one with the R top right matches my montreals ZF trans pattern the other the spyders, would alfa use two different manufacturers??
 

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Lightening the gears solves most of your issues. I am astonished that your wife's graduate was never able to be sorted ... no wonder Alfa struggled/s in Canada and America.

We have to remember that driving an old car is well driving an old car. If you want the modern car experience where every control is as diluted as opening a microwave door, then the answer is to move more modern with your car collection. But you do have a Montreal and still enjoy that and same period of car. I do wonder if, as the Montreal is a cruiser (to my understanding) and has I assume more torque, you can be more patient with the gear changes?

But yes many Alfisti swear by lightening the gears because then the synchros have less mass to slow or speed up
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Lightening the gears solves most of your issues. I am astonished that your wife's graduate was never able to be sorted ... no wonder Alfa struggled/s in Canada and America.

We have to remember that driving an old car is well driving an old car. If you want the modern car experience where every control is as diluted as opening a microwave door, then the answer is to move more modern with your car collection. But you do have a Montreal and still enjoy that and same period of car. I do wonder if, as the Montreal is a cruiser (to my understanding) and has I assume more torque, you can be more patient with the gear changes?

But yes many Alfisti swear by lightening the gears because then the synchros have less mass to slow or speed up
Pete
I hear you about old, yet both the graduate 32000kms original and my spyder 133000kms original and both purchased new from dealerships original owners always dry and heated storage well maintained, these are only old in years the muscles and cartilages are spring chicken and in her prime. And they both run as such, other than the transmissions.
 

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sorry forgot to add, the alfa 6 ZF was automatic, was not aware the manual was as well? i see the two options with the R gear, the one with the R top right matches my montreals ZF trans pattern the other the spyders, would alfa use two different manufacturers??
Alfa 6 for sale, manual 5000 euros
 

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But yes many Alfisti swear by lightening the gears because then the synchros have less mass to slow or speed up
Pete
Well lightening the gears isn`t really doing that much to ameliorate syncro wear.
That reputation has me busy however, but the little gain from the gear weight reduction from the entire gear package in the box on the SINGLE syncro blessed with speeding up ALL the gears & shafts is minuscule. And most forget that a syncro is not speeding up just that one gear to engage it. It has the whole gear assembly to alter speed, Plus!

That said, it not only has that to deal with, worse is the large OD heavy clutch disk. Along with the gear package that mass has to be altered, and is the most problemsome as the factory disk have Marcel springs in the friction material which EXPANDS the contact material when the clutch petal is pushed in to release it. Often draging on the PP and flywheel. This situation is basically the overwhelming problem with the syncro`s function

I built many factory sized disk (not any more as they are available for around $100.00 now, in no torque springs and aluminum plate for lightness. The Organic lining resulted in easy drivibility and smooth take up.

The most benefit Re- gear lightening, is that syncros have to be removed and I always replaced the syncro package on re-builds.. If a lighter hard friction surface clutch disk is used, all the better.
 
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