Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone know about this car? Not mine, just curious.

Alfa Romeo | eBay

That car has some SERIOUS preparation. Looks like a good buy from here. Dry sump, custom pedal assembly w/ reservoirs, fire suppression, EFI, coil overs...someone must know this car!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
I doubt it is really dry sump as. I can't see evidence of pump, plumbing, or drives. But agree neat car. Seriously modified. How can you tell it is electronically fuel injected? I see the electromotive coil packs but they can be use even on carbed cars. If it had Electromotive Tech 3 injection that would be worth half the current bid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Picture 9 looks like a box for oil res.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Ebay Alfettta Race-car

I was in contact with the owner. The head is cracked. He has no history of where or when the car was raced or record of lap times. He has no idea what the car weighs. He does not have any preparation notes, specifications on any of the modifications, or setup notes. All these things are important to have when buying a race-car.

The car also does not fit in any SCCA, NASA, SVRA class. The limited photos he has show tubular front control arms and coil-overs in the front (a no-go in any SCCA class) and stock Alfetta brakes in the back (??). You might be able to run AROC events that use a points based classification system.

In general, race car values are determined by the competitiveness of the car in class (can it win?) or the historical significance (glorious history). The owner can't show either for this car, therefore the low price/ no reserve. It might still be fun as a track-day car, but you would need to go through it completely because it has been sitting a long time.

my 2 cents

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Nothing wrong with tubular control arms and coil-overs on an SCCA E-Production car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
SCCA E-Production

Hey Erik-

IIRC, EP requires the original type (torsion bars) spings mounted in their original mounts. Did you read the rules differently?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Hey Curtis-

Well, If you and Erik are right, this car is a great deal. From what you can see, would you recommend a friend buy this car for EP instead on building one from scratch?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Unless you have a lot of car and spare cash just lying around, it is ALWAYS more economical to buy a prepped car than to build one from scratch...


Hey Curtis-

Well, If you and Erik are right, this car is a great deal. From what you can see, would you recommend a friend buy this car for EP instead on building one from scratch?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Agreed

Unless you have a lot of car and spare cash just lying around, it is ALWAYS more economical to buy a prepped car than to build one from scratch...
Hey racingsmim2006-

I completely agree with that concept. That is why I contacted the owner to get more information. The NASA class this car ran in (this is a guess based on the PS3 on the side of the car... the owner has no record it was ever raced) hasn't existed for many years and there is no evidence that this car was ever competitive anywhere. It does not run and has been sitting for several years. It will definitely need a motor. Probably brakes. 7 x 15 wheels. A whole new front suspension. I hope it has a race prepped transaxle with a LSD, but the owner did not know. If I lived close, it would be worth looking at. Sight unseen, there are too many expensive gaps in information.

So, you would recommend this car to a friend who wanted to race in EP? From what you see, this this car is the best approach for building a competitive Alfa for EP in the most cost effective way?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Hey Erik-

IIRC, EP requires the original type (torsion bars) spings mounted in their original mounts. Did you read the rules differently?

~Chris

Chris, I don't have the PCS in front of me. But SCCA production car rules were liberalized many years ago to allow fairly radical suspension modifications (on full-prep classifications). Mike Cudahy ran a pretty serious E-Production Alfetta in the midwest a few years ago that retained pretty much none of its' original front suspension. It ran coil-overs with fabricated control arms.

So, assuming this car does not have electronic fuel injection (which would not be legal), it should fit into SCCA E-Production. Not that it would be competitive at a national level.........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I am probably mistaken on the EFI part of the equation. Coilpacks made that (wrong) assumption easier. Now looks like Webers (short line connecting them, perhaps) in the engine bay photo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Erik-

I've got the rules on my laptop because I read through them after contacting the owner of this car. I will try to find the specifics in question. Maybe I misread it.

Thanks,

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
My bad. There are 2 levels of preparation in the current EP rules. Alfettas are allowed level 1:

f. Springs and Shock Absorbers

1. Any springs or torsion bars can be used, provided the
quantity of these items remains as stock. The location and
attachment points of springs and torsion bars are unrestricted.
Spacers/lowering blocks can be used between
leaf springs and the axle housing. The use of tender springs
is permitted, provided the tender springs are completely
compressed when the car is at static ride height. Static
ride height will be determined with the driver seated in the
normal driving position.

GTV6's are level 2:

f. Springs and Shock Absorbers

1. Any springs or torsion bars can be used, provided the quantity
and type of these items remains as stock. Springs and
torsion bars must be installed in the stock location using
the stock system of attachment. The use of tender springs
is permitted, provided the tender springs are completely
compressed when the car is at static ride height. Static
ride height will be determined with the driver seated in the
normal driving position.

It looks like maybe you could use ANY type of spring in level one. Are you guys reading this the same way I am?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
competitiveness

Chris, I don't have the PCS in front of me. But SCCA production car rules were liberalized many years ago to allow fairly radical suspension modifications (on full-prep classifications). Mike Cudahy ran a pretty serious E-Production Alfetta in the midwest a few years ago that retained pretty much none of its' original front suspension. It ran coil-overs with fabricated control arms.

So, assuming this car does not have electronic fuel injection (which would not be legal), it should fit into SCCA E-Production. Not that it would be competitive at a national level.........
Erik-

What would keep this this car from being competitive on a national level? Without any history, I would assume it would be like starting from scratch. You could assume no system was done right. Analyse suspension geometry, etc.. It would be no better than building a car from scratch, except that it has a cage and a fuel cell.

I think the Alfettas look very good in EP. Minimum weight is 1950 lbs. There is a guy in my region with an EP GTV6 that is killing the competition in EP. His car has to run the more restrictive level 2 prep and it needs to weigh 2300 lbs with the same tires and brakes.

So... to build a competitive car, is it more cost effective to start with this car, or with a cheap running street car?

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
Chris,

There are not enough photos for me to deem the car absolutely Eprod SCCA legal, but I am very familiar with the rules and believe it is. Coilovers, fabbed suspension, relocated pivots and pickups, flares, ect. crankfire, drysump (still don't believe it) all okay in SCCA production prep level 1.

The first few things I would question ref. Eprod.

Wheels need to be maximum 7" wide and 15" or less in diameter.

Webers or "originaltype" fuel injection okay with original throttle bodies required. Think this is ok but somebody mentioned electronic which would not be earlier in the thread.

Third the chassis can be removed anywhere and anything added pretty much anywhere, but you can't actually "replace". I think this is also ok but am not familiar enough with Alfetta tubs to determine for absolute sure that the front is not modified from the exhaust side pic.

Fourth the wing has to go.

Lastly the cage would have to be at least 1-1/2 .095 Moly or DOM and match the minimum requirement in the SCCA GCR. I cannot see enough of it in the pics.

As far as it being competitive on a national level that might be a tough one. Eprod is a very serious big money class. With all this cars mods it is still nowhere near the level Mike Cudahy took his and while it won a lot of races it was never a runoffs contender. For sure this car could be fun and impressive at a local level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
EP legal

Curtis-

Yeah. Wing is easy to remove. Wheels look to wide to me too. EP specifies specific track widths, so I would assume that would all have to be sorted with wheel offset/spacers. I didn't catch in the rules that you needed to use the original throttle bodies. I've never seen anyone try to use the Spica instead of 48 mm Webers.

The owner claims that the PO has a log book. Hopefully the cage was built to SCCA specs, but you are right, you would need to check it yourself to before you bid.

So, given all that. Is this car a cost effective starting point for a competitive EP car?

9 hours left on the Auction...

~Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Good basis for competitive EP car

Chris,

As far as it being competitive on a national level that might be a tough one. Eprod is a very serious big money class. With all this cars mods it is still nowhere near the level Mike Cudahy took his and while it won a lot of races it was never a runoffs contender. For sure this car could be fun and impressive at a local level.
It looks like you answered this while I was writing.

Thanks,

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Chris, my comments on competitiveness at a national level should not be construed as meaning that you couldn't have a lot of fun with the car. I just doubt any amount of development would make it a RunOffs winner. Cudahy's car was pretty thoroughly developed, but probably not to the degree that the national front runners are. I think his best times at Road America were around 2:35, where the EP front runners are in the 2:28's or 2:29's. The issue isn't with this particular car, just the Alfa EP classification in general.

As for the value, it is almost always cheaper to buy a car than build a race car! How much this one is worth is largely dependent on information not included in the ad. Is the cage SCCA legal? What gears are in the transaxle? Etc.

On the Prep 1 and Prep 2 rules, it can be really confusing. But yes, the Alfetta can run almost any front suspension you want, while the GTV6 has to have stock type springs and pickup points. When Cudahy was running in this area, there was a nicely prepared GTV6 running about the same times.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top