[JoshV12345]

Hi all,

I have a 1977 Alfetta and every now and then a funny noise comes from the front drive shaft region. It sounds like very light metal on metal contact.
Sometimes this noise will last for a long time and other times it will only last for a few seconds. The noise is quite loud, it can be heard a fair way away from the car.

All of the donuts have been replaced, also the engine mounts (including the rear one).

Could something i.e. the donut bolts etc, be hitting on the bell housing?

After the mounts were changed the motor has visibly moved. The noise doesn't get worse when the engine is cold and running a bit rough. In fact, it usually doesn't appear until I have driven it a little bit.

What puzzles me is that I have no idea what it is, whenever I get it up on the hoist to have a look, the noise magically disappears. I've had a good look at the front donut and I can't see any signs that it is touching anything.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated...Thanks

 

[JoshV12345]

Thanks for the replies.

Eric, the heat shield was taken off and never put back on so that's not it. I thought it might've been the exhaust hitting on something but I've played around with it while it's running and I can never get the noise to start/stop.

Giamba_ps, I'll check that out again but I'm pretty sure it's not hitting. I've been under the car while it's running and there's no sign that it's hitting. If the linkage is moved all the way to the right (near 5th and reverse) you would assume it would be far enough away to stop making any contact?

Ossodiseppia, could you elaborate on this 'slinger' I've never heard of it/them before. Not sure if it's a 'scraping' sound it's more like getting a screwdriver or bit of metal bar and tapping on another bit of metal, not really a scraping kind of sound, it speeds up as the engine speeds up. The only thing I can think it sounds close to is a loose tappet. It's not exactly like that but it's close.

 

[JoshV12345]

I missed this comment the first time I read your post. It's a little disconcerting. Can you please elaborate on this?

Ok well what happened was when the rear mount was being taken out the bell housing cracked so I had to find another one which I did from an identical car. The housings looked identical when I compared them. After putting the new mount in and then putting the housing back on I thought it would be a good idea to change the other mounts because the motor was out anyway so it would be less stuffing around in the long run because the old ones looked pretty rooted.

When putting the motor back in the two main mounts lined up but the rear one didn't exactly but it was still possible to get it onto the bolts.

(As you can see from the photo it was extremely difficult to get the nuts on these bolts because they just started spinning so one side I had to put spacers etc on and the other side the bolt was nearly all stripped so I managed to get it on and tightened it by prying the mount down with a screw driver to stop the bolt spinning.)

I did the motor mounts in my Alfetta more than 25 years ago. So, I can't remember if it's possible to get them swapped around on install. Can anybody comment on that?

They are different, the one on the carby side has the support bracket bolted to it.

The slinger is a round, concave shaped bit that mounts on one side of the carrier bearing. See the attachment. It's part number 11600.15132.02. If it gets bent during installation, it can scrape against the center support.

The centre bearing was not changed when the donuts were changed so I don't know how it could have become bent but it could be possible I suppose. The noise does not seem to be coming from there though it's more like right up the front of the driveshaft. The noise could be reverberating and making it seem like it's coming from a different direction though :S

If you think it's a lose tappet, that should be fairly easy for you to identify.

The motor does have a loose tappet, I know this already (I don't have the money right now to get a shim kit or the time to do it for that matter). The noise I'm hearing is different, it comes and goes and is distinctly audible over the top of the tappet noise.

I think the best approach is to work backwards. Did this issue start right after the drive line and engine mounts were serviced? If so, then we probably need to focus on them first.

Well this is where it gets confusing...if it was a bent slinger the noise would be there as soon as I started it up for the first time right? I was driving it for quite a while by which I mean a few thousand klms before this noise started being a problem. It's becoming more concerning now because the noise used to happen very rarely i.e. not even once every few weeks and would only last a few seconds. But recently it's started making it all the time. I'll start it up cold one morning and it'll idle for about a minute and then the noise will start and won't go away. If left idling it sometimes goes away after a while but always comes back when you start driving. There is also no excess vibration.

I've attached some photos, most of the driveshaft are blurry and can't see much because I was trying to take photos whilst squeezed underneath. It will be a few days before I can get it up in the air to take some proper photos, I apologise for that.

Thanks for your help.

 

[JoshV12345]

Some more pictures I attached a photo of the whole motor so you can see if it looks to be on a weird angle. To me it looks the same as before the mounts were changed...

 

[JoshV12345]

For a big start, you're missing the rear engine mount spacers between the mount and frame.That is why you needed the washer stackup to make it work.

Ok that's good to know...when I took the old mount off there was no spacers there so I was unaware that there had to be. Do you happen to know what thickness they need to be?

It looks like there is only one bell housing for the euro Alfettas. According to the parts manual, it's used on the 1600 and 1800 sedans as well as the 1600, 1800 and 2000 GTs. The US version Alfettas used a different one. I don't know what the difference is.

It was off one of these cars mentioned as far as I know...it definitely wouldn't be off a US car.

I suppose the thing to do would be to drop the back of the bell housing down and see how that affects the motor mounts. If you drop it down about as much as the thickness of one of those nuts, will it take some of the twist out of those motor mounts?

Ok I'll look into that as soon as possible. It was more of a left/right alignment issue not front/back.

Is is possible to start it up after I've undone the rear mount? Just to see if the noise has gone. Because then I'll know that that was the problem...

If I'm looking at those pictures correctly the motor is forward on the intake side and backwards on the exhaust side.

Yeah that's exactly the problem...but the mount is the same length on each side so I can try hitting it through a little more to see if that takes some of the twist out. Can anyone suggest an easy way to move that mount? I've heard that heating up the outer housing helps but I don't think I have access to anything that will do that. Also, what do I use to hit the sides with?

 

[JoshV12345]

Regarding your alignment problem along the longitudinal axis of the car, can you take photos of your De Dion tube where it mounts to the car, front and rear, including the Watts linkages, your tranmission mounts, and post them?

Yes I can, probably won't be until tomorrow though (it's night time where I am now).

Josh the shop manuals I have don't list the height of the collar, the only way for me to determine it would be for me lift my car and crawl underneath and measure one but that's not possible today. I would guess they are about 12mm

That's ok, I'll get something that will do the job and make it approx. 12mm... I think right now the more important issue is getting the twist out of the motor.

Have you carefully looked for signs of metal-to-metal contact all along the drive line?

Yes, I have carefully gone over the driveshaft but I didn't check the flywheel bolts, I'll do that tomorrow as well. Those bolts can be accessed without removing the driveshaft, yes?

 

[JoshV12345]

Ok I've taken most of the twist out and put the spacers in (they are meant to be 9mm for anyone who wants to know). The noise is still there but now it's only occasional so at least I've found part of the problem. I am now wondering if the mechanic who did the front and centre donuts put the spiggot bearing in properly at the front.

It may have been put in incorrectly and then the weird angle of the motor added to the problem which then produced a sound...

There is no external contact so it must be internal you would think? I'll have to pull the driveshaft out to have a look at the front donut to see if it was put on properly, not a job that I really want to do...

I have a complete bellhousing with a reinforced mount for sale if you want it.

Thanks for the offer but I should be right for now considering I only recently just purchased a new rear mount.

Regarding your alignment problem along the longitudinal axis of the car, can you take photos of your De Dion tube where it mounts to the car, front and rear, including the Watts linkages, your tranmission mounts, and post them?

I'll attach them in this post, the gearbox mounts were difficult to take a good photo of though.

 

[JoshV12345]

last photo.

 

[JoshV12345]

It is a bit saggy, but it's not as bad as it looks in those photos. The mount crossmember is below the chassis a little but not as much as it appears in the photo. Also the gap is about 1cm (I can kind of fit my finger in it). The front bolt is canted a little as well.

Also, in looking at your rear suspension, have you carefully inspected the Watts pivot bush and end link bushes? There should be no metal-to-metal contact anywhere and all rubber should be intact.

Well there doesn't appear to be any metal-metal contact, the rubber seems a bit old though, but is still intact.

By the way, thanks everyone for the help it's really appreciated.

 

[JoshV12345]

It's something you'll need to fix. The best way is to find the same piece from a salvage yard. It should be easy to find as it's not a part that is commonly damaged.

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for some. Alfa parts are hard to come by here so I'll do my best.

Even if those mounts were straight though, the chassis wouldn't be up against the crossmember mount. Also since the front bolts seem to be on an angle, wouldn't this require major work to fix? Just putting new front mounts on wouldn't fix that would it?

 

[JoshV12345]

I live in far north Queensland in Australia, everything needs to be shipped up from Melbourne or Brisbane. Unless I find a parts car or something it's sometimes difficult to find parts, and then I can't be assured they're in good condition etc. I have a few people I can ask though so I'll definitely look into it.

 

[JoshV12345]

Josh before you buy or replace anything can you determine why it is the way it is? Or is there a local mechanic you trust that can examine the car?

Well I'm assuming it's just because it's old and has been sitting for a while, the car has been to a mechanic a few times but they have never mentioned anything about it.

The whole car is a bit run-down. For instance the chassis rails have twisted slightly giving the front wheels a little bit of camber.

Because this is my first car, it was bought pretty cheaply and I'm not looking to ever restore it because it's not really worth it financially. After I've finished uni and actually have a job I'll definitely be looking for an alfa that is in good condition, but for now I have to drive this for a few more years.

Josh,

I'm down in Melbourne . If your after a parts car or 2 this popped up on the AROCA Vic site this afternoon.

2 Alfetta Gtvs for sale Brisbane

Gully

Thanks for that, the only problem is getting them up here though. As I said before, I can't really do much until I finish uni anyway.

 

[JoshV12345]

***? Chassis rails are slightly twisted? Can you please post some pictures of what you are talking about?

Well this is what I was told when I had the caster adjusted and the camber looked at. I'm not sure if I believe that. The wheels definitely have camber on them though (and haven't been adjusted) so I'm not sure what it could be.

You can't see anything wrong just by looking underneath, the chassis rails look normal. But being a 35 year old car would something like that be possible? (especially if it's been sitting for a while) No work has been done to it, it's totally original.

 

[JoshV12345]

If it's just a camber issue, that is something that can be adjusted on most cars. I'd have to do a little research to see if Alfettas can even have a camber adjustment.

In the haynes manual it says that it can be adjusted by putting spacers in, I didn't bother because there's only a slight bit of camber and it would help with handling anyway.

There's no difference between the two rails they look the same, and there's the same amount of camber on both sides.