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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is the tale of my (successful) attempt to refit the manual door window winder cables in my Alfetta GTV.
Ok..
Do you have a dog?
Yes a dog, furry thing, four legs (3 will do), well you need one.
First park the car some where, where it can be left for at least three days, without being in the way of any body or any thing, and preferably where you can avoid seeing it.
I bought my car partially disassembled and I have slowly been putting it back together.
Many things have been removed for the car for no apparent, logical reason and boxed.
It is a European left hand drive model.
I did this refit with the window winder mechanism/reel still fitted (not removed from the car) and reused the original/old cables.
The door panels, handles, winders on both doors had already been removed.
The glass is still fitted in the passenger door, however the outer trim on the window lip has been removed, meaning I will have to remove or drop the door glass to refit the trim as the screw fitting holes can not be accessed with the glass fitted!
The glass in the drivers door has been removed, but the winder mechanism, rollers and cable are still fitted.
So all I have to do is slot the window glass back in to the frame and reattach it to the window cable in the same place that it was clearly removed from……Done.
Now at this point, you need to ask your self….
Do you really need a door window?...You do!
Ok, do you really really need it to open??...really? could you live with it permanently bolted closed?
I guess not so lets start.
First my door cards where already removed, and I am not going to tell you how to remove them, if you can’t figure that out, then I suggest that you burn the car on the street out side your home.
If the car is in your garage, lock the garage when you are inside, if you are not a sad looser (like me) living alone, then tell every one in the house that you must not be disturbed….no matter what they hear!
Now you are going to need lights, as it’s very hard to see inside the door, small rechargeable type lights are ideal to fit inside of the door and illuminate the cables, pullies and reel.
Access is also very limited, but if you can start with the door glass in the fully up position you will have more room to figure out and feel around what’s going on.
Right, lets start.
Now stop.
You have no idea what you are doing.
This is why and when you need the dog (the first time) clip the mutt on its lead and leave the car and the house behind, do not return for at least 3 hours, clear your head of all thoughts and take many many deep breaths…and relax.
All I had to do was slot the window glass back in to the frame and reattach it to the cable in the same position that it was clearly removed from…..done.
Wind it up….up up up…ok wind it down…down down twang.
Cable slipped off the top pulley…that’s a pain!
With the glass half down I can not get my hand inside to loop the cable back over the pulley.
So I lift the glass up in to the fully closed position and the pulley is just reachable, but the cable is too tight to loop?
I’ve got it, when the window is fully wound up there is a little bit of “slack” in the bottom cable, enough to be able to loop that cable off the bottom pulley, wind the window winder “down” giving some slack in the top cable and then still holding the window up I can reloop the top cable around the top pulley then sort out the bottom.
Ok..loop off the bottom cable…ker twangeee…all the cable unwinds from the reel and curls up in the bottom of the door
Errrr…never mind at least the top is back on, just relocate the cable end back in the slot on the reel and loop the bottom cable back around the reel.
Not much room to work, but I just manage to do it, very hard to get the last bit to go over the lip of the reel with the cable tension.
Window will now wind all the way up and…….half the way down, can I live with that?
Half a day gone, lets have a coffee.
This is a job, once done, I am never going to do again, so best put it right now before every thing is put back together, and I then decide that I need to put it right..how hard can it be?
Try again, unwind the bottom cable, start again.
To make things more complicated, the window winder does not wind continuously it has a wound up limit and a wound down limit.
Lock the window in it’s up position, lets remove the bottom pulley to give more cable “play”, in fact lets also take off the top cable from the real and start afresh.
So if the window is up there will only be a small amount of “down cable wrapped around the reel.
So with the winder wound to the fully up position wind two loops of the bottom cable around the reel, the wind down the winder and the cable spools around the reel as the window is pulled down by the “down” cable.
Twang, the top cable comes off the top pulley..again.
Patience…push the window up again while winding up the winder to give some cable slack..
Twang…the bottom cable comes coiling back in to the bottom of the door.
Repeat repeat repeat…
The passenger door card is removed so I have a good look inside there.
I can see the cable reel and the top cable is fitted to the outer side of the reel.
With the window fully wound up, there is about a loop and a half of cable on the outer edge of the reel.
Wait a moment….that doesn’t make sence?
If the window is fully wound up then the reel must have wound the maximum amount of “up” cable on to the reel to pull the window up…how can that be?
2 days latter, and after many many dog walks.
To start the bottom pulley in the drivers door is not very good, so I swap it over with the good winding/opening passenger door pulley.
It is a simple system of two pullies, one top, one bottom, and one cable with two open end that both fit on to the same single cable reel.
The two pullies and one cable reel form a triangle inside of the door, however...
The cable does not fit in a “triangle” around the reel and pullies, the cable forms a figure “8”, with a big half of the 8 around the pullies and then a small end around the cable reel.
On/in the drivers door, the top cable goes around the underside of the reel, the bottom cable over the top of the reel.
Got it?
The top and bottom cable occupy the same area of the cable reel as they are wound on and off the reel, never the two shall meet, they must not cross inside to out side on the reel or they will jam up, window half down/up.
Here we go…finally.
If your window glass is still attached to the window cable then this is how I did it.
Ensure that the top cable is looped over the top pulley in the door.
With no cable yet attached to the cable reel, lower the door glass to the fully down open position, (about half an inch of glass showing in the door frame).
Wind the window winder to its fully down position.
Take the top cable, loop it under and over the reel, and locate its end on to the reel in the inner most side/rim.
Now add one more loop of cable around the reel keeping the cable very close to the edge where you just attached it.
Very carefully now wind the winder up and this will wind “up” cable back on to and across the reel.
You may wish to remove the bottom pulley from the door to give you more cable play for the last stage.
Take the bottom cable and loop it over and under the cable reel keeping the first “wind" up against the last wind of the up cable, winding from the center to the outer edge of the reel.
Add one full loop and then another half before fixing the cable end in to the slot of the outer edge of the cable reel.
Now keep some tension on the cable while you (refit the pulley) loop the bottom cable around the bottom pulley….
That's it, that’s it done, that's what I did……but
When I tried to locate the end of the bottom cable back in to the reel, I found that it was half a winder turn out, not enough slack in the cable to do another go around, but too slack to operate the window without the cable keep slipping off the pullies.
So I fitted the bottom cable as described above, and holding the tension in to the bottom cable with a gloved hand, I wound up and wound down the window…
Every thing works fine, window goes up and down, no creaking, no jams, and cable spools on and off the cable reel.
But, I could not get rid of the slack in the cable.
My solution….?
I added an extra pulley, a third pulley for the bottom cable, horizontally across from the existing bottom pulley and taking up the extra cable slack giving the correct cable tension…see pics.
I just happened to have an extra pulley that has been in my tool box for the last 40 years, but you could simply add tension by inserting a bolt with some big washers on (for the cable to run between) in the same sort of position in the door as required.
It really is the biggest pain in the … job to do
But I didn’t have to drill out the rivets to remove the reel, or buy a new pretensioned cable (if you can find one)
Maybe if you have less time, and more money, that is the way to go, but I didn’t let it beat me, and the dog is as fit as…well a dog.




 

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I will be doing this in a week or two. My cable popped off. I did this a few years ago when my cable broke. I got cable and ferule ends from the hardware store and made a new cable. I spent the same amount of time as you, but I didn't have a dog. It was also a little long but only about by 1/2 inch. It has probably stretched as well over the years. Maybe I can install a new pulley a little closer than you. At any rate, I follow what you are saying exactly and this is a great tutorial, because I was dreading going back in there since I kind of forgot how I did it. Knowing which cable end goes on the inside of the reel and which on the outside is probably the most important thing. And knowing that the upper one goes to the bottom of the reel and the lower one goes to the top of the real is the next most important thing.

Thanks,
 

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Quick question: where the cables cross, picture 4 and 5, which cable is closest the driver (inside) and which cable is on the outside? Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quick question: where the cables cross, picture 4 and 5, which cable is closest the driver (inside) and which cable is on the outside? Thanks.
Hello
Should I say thank you for having me revisit this nightmare of a "little job"...?
I had to re read my own post to remind me how it is done..
The cable that goes over the top pulley is the first to be wound on to the reel.
This cable fits nearest to the inside of the door.
Remember the cables make a figure of 8 so the top cable goes over the top pulley then loop underneath the reel and back over the top to locate in the rim...making half the figure of 8
Done with the glass in the down position and the winder/reel in the down position..see the last part of my rambling post above on how to do it.
Then you wind the winder/reel/ and glass in to the up/closed position.
Then the bottom cable goes on the outer side of the reel.
Hope that's clear..er?
 

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So to be clear, I am not asking about which cable attaches to the inside or the outside. Where they cross, which one is on the inside and which on is on the outside? I understand from another post, that I cannot find right now, if this is wrong, there will be trouble.

This part of your picture:

Pollinator Insect Leg Arthropod Moths and butterflies
 

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I'm so glad I have a spare door on my parts car for reference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So to be clear, I am not asking about which cable attaches to the inside or the outside. Where they cross, which one is on the inside and which on is on the outside? I understand from another post, that I cannot find right now, if this is wrong, there will be trouble.

This part of your picture:

View attachment 1711611
Good morning....early morning!
I am English, so perhaps there was a little some thing lost in translation?
Perhaps I should have added a disclaimer to my post?
This is/was my solution,other solutions may be available.
If you are "doing" this job, and not just trying to picture it in your head, then I hope it might be clearer.
I added the picture to show how the cables enter the reel.
As the picture shows, they cross as the enter the reel, not on the reel.
Top cable to bottom of reel, bottom cable to top of reel..so they cross.
The cable fixes in to the edge of the reel.
As the cable winds on to the reel from the fixing point on the edge, it winds on from the edge to the middle and winds off from the middle to the edge.
The cables do not cross on the reel...as it says in the original (over long) post, never the two shall meet,as the occupy the same part (of the one) reel at different times of wind on wind off.
I put the top cable on first, top to bottom of reel, under and over, so the top cable is on the inside.
That's how I made it work.
Please see disclaimer.
 

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Yes, I understand the process and the drum and figure 8. I understand that the top cable is mounted to the inside fixing point on the drum and the lower cable is mounted to the outside catch of the drum. It's a very good explanation.

The one small detail that I want to clarify is at the crossover point. As you are coming up from the lower pulley, you could go over or under (inside or outside) the other cable at the crossover point before you get to the spool. It may or may not be the same as the mounting point on the spool. I just want to clarify which cable is on the inside or outside at the cross over point.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, I understand the process and the drum and figure 8. I understand that the top cable is mounted to the inside fixing point on the drum and the lower cable is mounted to the outside catch of the drum. It's a very good explanation.

The one small detail that I want to clarify is at the crossover point. As you are coming up from the lower pulley, you could go over or under (inside or outside) the other cable at the crossover point before you get to the spool. It may or may not be the same as the mounting point on the spool. I just want to clarify which cable is on the inside or outside at the cross over point.

Thanks,
Many many...many years ago I went on a 7 day course at a race drivers school at a circuit back in England.
At the end of that week, the tutors laid on a very special "class room" evening with the engineer/designer of the most successful (at that time), open wheeled, single seater race car.
We all 12 of us filed in to the class room to find that the chairs had been arranged in a circle around the very car that he had designed.
It was probable the closest that any of us had ever been to a real race car, within reach, in all its glory, and we were all sat no more than 6 feet away from the car.
The designer gave us a very detailed and lengthy talk about every aspect of the car, all of its designs and functions, and we all sat note books on our laps writing notes.
At the end of his talk he got to the, "so does any one have any questions" part?
There followed an over long and some what embarrassing silence.
Just as he was about to give the.."well if there are no questions thank you all for coming...." wrap up, one of our fellow students piped up.
He was the guy who had been pulled over by the police on his way to the circuit for wearing his race helmet in his road car.
He had been wearing it 24/7 to "get used to the weight"
Yes I have a question he said...we all reopened our note books ready to write down the new information about to come our way....what is your question the cars designer asked?
And out came his question......"how long is the exhaust?"
What is the point of that tale you may ask, well....
Other than using words to tell you how to do it, and pictures to show you, I can offer you no more explanation.
So here is a picture of my dog.
(ps..it's one cable with two ends, if you know that the cable can not be crossed..don't cross it...50-50 chance)
 

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I'm not sure if you took offense to me repeating my question with a clarification. If so, that was not my intention. But this:

ps..it's one cable with two ends, if you know that the cable can not be crossed..don't cross it...50-50 chance
Indicates that you did not in effect understand my question. I was not questioning the cross over at all. I apologize if I was unclear, I thought it was pretty clear. It is indeed very relevant and the picture was hard to see, hence my asking if you remembered which side. This:

Other than using words to tell you how to do it, and pictures to show you, I can offer you no more explanation.
Is all you really needed to say. Or a simple I don't remember. I can certainly get my answer by removing my other door panel and seeing the mirror image for reference. I was trying to avoid that, but I will if I have to. You can call me lazy, sure. I am one of those folks who sometimes ask a question when I can get the answer with a little extra work. Many of us on this BB do that just to see if anyone remembers a relevant fact.

I still think your explanation is pretty thorough, barring the last detail. I will not repeat my question with any further clarification. I will do the work to find out and post back here to have a more complete procedure.

Thanks for your contribution.
 

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Is this a driver or passenger door you're working on?
 

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If it's any help at all, I can look at my Sport Sedan left rear door for ya.
 

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I am not sure a Sport Sedan rear has the same setup as a GT front. Thanks for the offer though. I do have some time this weekend to take off the right door panel and take a look. I could do the bottom pulley while I'm in there, the way Superloaf (Bob) did on another post. I have a couple extra pulleys for that. It will do me good.

Thanks,
 

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Circuit component Composite material Gas Font Household hardware

Font Nickel Metal Auto part Electric blue


I cannot contribute anything to this discussion, but this is the factory tool for this job. Not for sale, sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't know/understand what more you want me to add...my failing.
This was done on my left hand drive car...drivers door.
It's simpler than it reads.
Loop the "top" cable over the top pulley then down and under and over the reel/winder.
You fit the cable tag in to the locator on the inside edge of the door, which is nearest the inside of the door.
You loop /wind the cable from the edge to the middle of the reel. (one loop...ish)
Then you wind the window glass up with the winder which winds on more cable from the edge towards the middle/center of the reel.
The window glass is at the top/closed.
Now loop the 'bottom" cable around the bottom pulley then over and under the top of the reel/winder.
Butt the cable up against the cable that is already wound on to the reel and continue to the out side edge of the reel..the outer side of the door.....(one and a half ish loops)
Locate the tab/end of the cable in to it's locating slot in the reel edge.
To give you some slack to fit the "bottom" cable, you can remove the bottom pulley from he door (10mm bolt) and then refit that to tension the cable.
That didn't work for me, it did not give the cable enough tension, so
I fitted an extra pulley in the bottom of the door to give me extra/correct tension in the bottom cable.
If I didn't say, you start this with the door glass in the down/open position.
That's it!...the cables do not cross..they pass in close proximity.
 
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