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Hi all, long time alfabb member (lost my old account), but now back.

This question will be sacrilege for some, but I'm thinking about putting an STI drivetrain in a 70's GTV. I thought that back in the day a few people had done this with really good results (outside of the hate from purists)

I love the look of the GTV, but would relish reliability, awd and lots of power.

Outside of the 'why would you do this' comments, has anyone done it? Point me in the right direction?

thanks
dan
 

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I've never heard of anybody swapping a flat-anything in an Alfa. Might work in an Alfasud.
I've heard of 105 Alfas being fitted with all sorts of inline 4s from Toyota Corolla to Nissan 16 valve to Chevrolet Ecotec; V6s (all 60 degrees) including German Ford, Fiat Dino, and Alfa's Busso V6; American V8s; and an Alfabb poster is fitting a Ferrari V8 to a GTV.

I was in a friend's shop a few days ago; he's worked extensively on Subarus and he had some sort of a Subaru turbocharged engine on the floor. It's waaaaaay too wide to fit in there between the wheels. Doesn't it sit ahead of the wheels in its natural habitat?

You can do whatever you like with your car, but a flat 4 is probably one of the least feasible swaps. Or do you want to rebody an Impreza with GTV panels? We might have a hopeless donor for you. But quite frankly, I'd rather get an SVX, a really great car, and swap a later Subaru drivetrain with manual gearbox.

(And as an aside, you'd be replacing one of the best sounding 4 cylinders around with one of the worst.)
 

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Hi all, long time alfabb member (lost my old account), but now back.

This question will be sacrilege for some, but I'm thinking about putting an STI drivetrain in a 70's GTV. I thought that back in the day a few people had done this with really good results (outside of the hate from purists)

I love the look of the GTV, but would relish reliability, awd and lots of power.

Outside of the 'why would you do this' comments, has anyone done it? Point me in the right direction?

thanks
dan
My daily driver is a late model STI. The EJ257 probably wouldn't be my pick for a swap. The boxer does have a lower center of gravity than most 4 cylinders, but the engine has historically had a lot of reliability issues, and has a very "rubber band" type power band that will be problematic in a light weight 2 wheel drive vehicle (i.e. wheelspin city once boost comes on).

I would suggest that a Honda K-series is probably a much better option for a 4-banger motor swap in a GTV. A lightly worked over K-24 can make as much power naturally aspirated as an EJ257 does turbocharged (at least in stock form). Boost a K-series, and you can make absolutely silly power (more than you could possibly use in the chassis).
 

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Insanity

Pete
 

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(And as an aside, you'd be replacing one of the best sounding 4 cylinders around with one of the worst.)
Sound is very much a matter of personal taste (I much prefer the EJ to most Honda motors personally), but I'd point out that the sound associated with Subaru EJ series boxers mostly comes from the unequal length header. They sound completely different with equal length headers. On a swap project, there'd likely to be little reason to go unequal length. But as I said before, it's not the right motor for a GTV. If you are going to use boost to make the power, why not just boost the stock Nord?

I also noticed that OP was talking about a complete drivetrain swap. Getting the transmission and AWD system in would require a pretty extreme amount of cutting in a 105 chassis. Transmission wouldn't fit the housing area at all, and there's nowhere for the center diff to go unless you cut space for it. To get the rear diff to work, you'd need the IRS from the STI, but there's nowhere for a double wishbone rear to go in a 105 (more cutting/fabricating plus fuel tank relocation). Track width is much narrower in the GTV, which means very wide flares or other means to equalize. At the end of the day, you'd have a STI wearing an Alfa suit- that's a lot more than just a motor swap. If you just want an STI powertrain in a light weight chassis, I'd just get a GC8 Impreza (1990s era) and swap in an EJ257 (essentially the small 2 door STI the U.S. never got, but with the larger displacement EJ257 instead of the JDM 207). It would weigh almost as little, and things would actually fit without completely redoing the entire chassis.

Alternatively, if you like the Subaru powerplants but aren't set on the AWD, Factory Five racing sells a pretty cool kit car based on the Subaru WRX that turns it into a super light weight mid-engined car.

 

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Why don't people who actually want boring modern, over capable, drivetrains and suspension just put fibreglass bodies of what ever floats their boat on the modern chassis, or a space frame made for this purpose.

You could do a Ferrari GTO, LM or Alfa GTV, TZ2, anything and you would end up with a far better car afterwards.

Pete
 
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I love the look of the GTV, but would relish reliability, awd and lots of power.
If you want AWD, as well as a flat-4 engine, I'd say that the 105 Alfa chassis simply won't work. Or would require a LOT of effort to make it work.

I'm no expert, but would think that the easiest way to achieve the proposed Subaru-Alfa hybrid would be Alfaholics-supplied Alfa body panels grafted to a Subaru subframe. Whether these two cars' wheelbases or track widths are at all comparable is an unknown to me, but I predict you'll need to section the Subauru chassis to shorten its wheelbase and add wide wheel arches to the Alfa body to accommodate a wider track width.

Be sure to keep us informed of your progress!
 

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Why don't people who actually want boring modern, over capable, drivetrains and suspension just put fibreglass bodies of what ever floats their boat on the modern chassis, or a space frame made for this purpose.

You could do a Ferrari GTO, LM or Alfa GTV, TZ2, anything and you would end up with a far better car afterwards.

Pete
Good point. Anybody with the engineering and fabrication skills to complete such a swap and make it sorted has the skills to do a custom tube frame chassis replica car. There are companies that make such replicas with modern drivetrains for cars like the Lancia Stratos, but you don't see too many replicas of classic Ferraris due to legal issues.
 

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I love the look of the GTV, but would relish reliability, awd and lots of power.
I wouldn't call the Nord unreliable at all, and they're reasonably easy to work on. Biggest issue with the GTV isn't the engine, it's probably body rust, and that's the part you'll be keeping that with an engine swap. Also if you're going with a Subaru boxer you might actually have chosen the only engine with more head gasket problems than an Alfa :ROFLMAO:

Why not just buy an STI and drive it? They're nice cars and look good. You move ahead with your plan, I suspect you're going to end up with a cobbled together, neither-fish-nor-fowl car that only serves to ruin the value of a GTV.
 

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I wouldn't call the Nord unreliable at all, and they're reasonably easy to work on. Biggest issue with the GTV isn't the engine, it's probably body rust, and that's the part you'll be keeping that with an engine swap. Also if you're going with a Subaru boxer you might actually have chosen the only engine with more head gasket problems than an Alfa :ROFLMAO:

Why not just buy an STI and drive it? They're nice cars and look good. You move ahead with your plan, I suspect you're going to end up with a cobbled together, neither-fish-nor-fowl car that only serves to ruin the value of a GTV.
And if you are talking about reliability as in "it starts when I turn the key", that's a function of the ignition and fuel delivery systems. You can update those if you wish with a lot less work. Perhaps the Nord won't make it 250k miles like a late model Toyota motor, but most classic car owners won't drive classics half that far in their entire lifetime.
 

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Subaru gearboxes don't have the greatest reputation either

The Legacy, for certain years, was an elegant car
Pete
 

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Subaru gearboxes don't have the greatest reputation either

The Legacy, for certain years, was an elegant car
Pete
The WRX gearbox is the problematic one. The STI gearbox is actually quite stout and has a good reputation. It will hold double the stock torque without issue.
 

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Given enough time and money, anything can be done.

the sound associated with Subaru EJ series boxers mostly comes from the unequal length header. They sound completely different with equal length headers.
Good to know, I'm thinking of getting a BRZ.
 

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That's why. I noticed they tend to sound different. Good news.

But still not an Alfa twincam to my ear!
 

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The BRZ IS the car for dasbythebay. Great looking and handling car, that could be boosted to have even more fun

Pete
 
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