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Discussion Starter #1
Hah! Made you look!

Fake news. In our dreams.

Hope y'all enjoy your slushboxes (or paddle-shifters, or F1s, or PDKs, or whatever someone chooses to call them).

Pardon this post, I'm just feeling nasty this morning.

Cheers,
Dave S
nothing but stick shifts in my fleet, now and forever
 

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1986 Alfa Romeo GTV6
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ahahahaha. good one.
I still don;t see why. In all of europe it is difficult to find automatic.
 

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I actually did see an early prototype Giulia Quad at Herb Chambers Alfa/Maserati in Millbury before they were launched with a six speed, was not to be made available for public consumption. It was loaded, cc brakes and all. It’s not nice to tease this group.
 

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I actually did see an early prototype Giulia Quad at Herb Chambers Alfa/Maserati in Millbury before they were launched with a six speed, was not to be made available for public consumption. It was loaded, cc brakes and all. It’s not nice to tease this group.
There are a lot of Giulia QV manuals. Just none in this market.
Are you fast enough for that car? Don't think anyone is.
 

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Manual transmissions would never sell in America as much as I would like to buy one.
 

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Sure they would. Admittedly not as many as Fiat would hope for, or figure it would be worth the cost, but there is a market for them, even if it is limited. Not everyone is entranced by the automatic. Drove the SS w/automatic yesterday, and then the two 164s w/manual today. What a difference in having fun with a transmission.
 

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Sure they would. Admittedly not as many as Fiat would hope for, or figure it would be worth the cost, but there is a market for them, even if it is limited. Not everyone is entranced by the automatic. Drove the SS w/automatic yesterday, and then the two 164s w/manual today. What a difference in having fun with a transmission.
Agreed, there is a demand but very limited and probably not cost effective for them to manufacture them.
 

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There are a lot of Giulia QV manuals. Just none in this market.
Are you fast enough for that car? Don't think anyone is.
There were not very many built. They were only available in a few markets (like Germany and Italy) for 2017 and part of the 2018 model year. The manual option was discontinued after that on the QV.
 
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I love the ZF 8 speed automatic transmission in my 2018 Giulia Ti Q4 Lusso. IMO, it is very well matched to the engine and drivetrain and chassis. The paddle shifters only add to the experience. Well spaced gears, crisp shifting when you want it (choose your shift speed with the DNA knob). Not a slushbox! For me, larger cars, like the Giulia are more suited to an automatic than a manual. Modern turbocharged cars seem to drive better with automatics, as well. For lighter, higher compression normally aspirated cars, yes, a manual is better suited. Just my $0.02
 

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Agreed, there is a demand but very limited and probably not cost effective for them to manufacture them.
That is correct. The demand is so limited the transmissions makers are very reluctant to even design a manual shift transmission these days, much less build one for sale. Car makers who want one have to commission ZF or Graziano or Ricardo to design and make one especially.

The last advantages manual shifts had over automatics disappeared by 2008 at the latest. The newest automatics are just so much better than any manual shift only a very few drivers will buy a manual.
 

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Watched a video on YouTube...2 eighteen year old young men could not figure out how to use a rotary dial telephone. They wouldn't even comprehend a manual transmission.
 

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"The newest automatics are just so much better than any manual shift"

Depends on what you think is important. For instance, super speedy shifting is of very little interest to me but it seems to be for you. Different strokes, etc.
 

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To me, the pleasure of driving is the feeling of controlling a machine. It has to do with sounds, smells, touch, feedback, g forces, and having to do something to take part of it. Absolute performance has not much to do with it. Having anything automated lessens the pleasure. Today's cars offer fantastic technology but to me they are just appliances, great for going somewhere, zero for my enjoyment.

I am 61, have been driving since 1975, and almost all of the 45 cars I've owned since the first one (1750 GTV) are manual up to my current daily driver. My father drove until he was 92, also manual.
 

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I have to say that the ZF 8 speed is just about perfect. Even though I am usually in Drive, I am constantly using the paddles to keep the engine in the sweet spot. Just as I would in a manual trans but this so much more active and precise. Approaching intersections, I always drop down 2 or 3 gears so that I have max torque as I drive through. On the freeway, when traffic slows down I again use the paddles to both slow the car down by going to a lower gear and that puts me in the perfect gear when it is time to accelerate. And the same going up and down mountain roads. The only thing that I rarely need to do is the upshift...that takes care of it self. This is the best auto trans I've driven, and that includes the VW DSG and the Porsche PDK. Of course all these gears are to try and maximize the narrow torque curve of the engine. Imagine a seven or eight speed manual gear box...it would be absurd. I almost never used sixth gear in my Porsche's except if cruising above 80 mph...it is just a fuel economy overdrive.
 

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To me, the pleasure of driving is the feeling of controlling a machine. It has to do with sounds, smells, touch, feedback, g forces, and having to do something to take part of it. Absolute performance has not much to do with it. Having anything automated lessens the pleasure. Today's cars offer fantastic technology but to me they are just appliances, great for going somewhere, zero for my enjoyment.

I am 61, have been driving since 1975, and almost all of the 45 cars I've owned since the first one (1750 GTV) are manual up to my current daily driver. My father drove until he was 92, also manual.
I understand entirely. I got my license in 1958...my car was a '57 chevy V8 with a three speed column shift. I didn't buy my first auto (a tiptronic) until 2000...an Audi A4 and I just want to try it. Went back to a manual, then went to an auto diesel (tiptronic) and another tiptronic back to gas, then a GTI with DSG...and that really put three peddles out to pasture. I gave a manuel one more time in my 2003 911. By then I was 71 or 72...I liked it but if felt slow next to the DSG. A badly sprained left ankle convinced me by body was losing a certain amount of elasticity. I swapped for a tiptronic and have stayed with the modern autoshifters ever since. When I put the Giulia on the small track at Willow Springs, it was amazing to use the paddles...I was more active and doing more than I ever could in a manual. Now the only manual I would consider is the older Alfa 5 speeds in the 105 and 115 series cars. They were slow enough to make the gear box seem fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Besides the issue of driver engagement with the car that Del and Yves wrote about, there is the issue of options during failures (admittedly cars strand their owners far less frequently than they used to). With an automatic, if just about anything goes wrong with the car, you're instantly dead in the water and calling a tow truck. With a manual you usually have a lot more options to limp home with, or at least get the car off the road to a safer spot. But really it's mostly about getting into the driving experience, instead of just going along with the ride while fiddling with the 'infotainment system'.
 

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"The newest automatics are just so much better than any manual shift"

Depends on what you think is important. For instance, super speedy shifting is of very little interest to me but it seems to be for you. Different strokes, etc.
The user interface is much simpler and foolproof (well, except for the truly terrible ZF shift lever currently in the Giulia, all bmws and FCA products to name a few. It really is a huge step backwards). The driver need only select from three options, stay put, move forward or move in reverse. Henry ford had that one figured out nicely. The Model T basically used a form of "automatic".

The only function of the transmission is to match IC engine torque output to the torque required by the driver at the wheels. The automatic chooses the correct ratio infallibly. The one advantage of the manual, that it transferred the correct torque at the right time and more efficiently, is now gone.

The other function once delivered more effectively by driver skill than the automatic was precise torque control at the contact patches. When accurate and sophisticated traction control and stability control were fully developed this was no longer the case. Most recently JLR has introduced the final nail in this particular coffin with its very low friction surface defeating slow progress control. This is a kind of combined traction control and cruise/speed control derived from Land Rover's hill descent control software, which in itself was a brilliant piece of engineering.

So, the manual transmission remains for a small market of what are now highly skilled drivers for whom the exercise of this skill is very rewarding. Some of us also sail still our boats, ride our horses or fly our own painfully slow light aircraft. Those are all inferior, objectively assessed, to their modern alternatives. Demand for manual transmission cars is, I suspect, less than the demand for any one of those anachronistic activities. I agree it is fun, especially when I slide the rear axle out in my Subaru. Officially, I am assessing whether it is safe to extract a 7th year out of my summer tires but you know what's really going on.
 

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"Some of us also sail still our boats" "Those are all inferior, objectively assessed, to their modern alternatives" "any one of those anachronistic activities"

Sailing a boat is an anachronistic activity? Really? A sailboat is just that, a boat, rgardless of it's design, just wind powered. The modern alternative is what, a big fuel sucking noisy power boat? Oh, please, Michael, lol.

Never mind, we are talking Alfas here. Having fun in them is at least half the deal. How we get that fun is obvilusly different for different folks. As with sailing, it's the style of interaction which counts the most for me. Automatics, esp in an Alfa, for the most part, just don't provide that for me, or for my wife as well.

Side note: After I bought the Chevy SS, I found out that the most valued version is the one with the manual, not the automatic even if the automatic works well. Small market, yes, but there you go. Technocrats would eliminate that completely, as their source of fun is different.
 
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