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Discussion Starter #1
I am relatively new to Alfa cars. I understand that, if there is such a thing, "tasteful modifications" to these cars is pretty much accepted in the Alfa community and do not materially affect desirability or resale prices. Some may actually add to value. What I am looking to better understand is what upgrades are desirable and which are tabu?

I have been looking for an original 1970-1973 GTV coupe and came upon this example which was sold months ago. However, I would like thoughts from the community on what is and is not acceptable with the car.

Here's the link:
1972 Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 ? Northeast Sportscar

I understand that this car came with original fuel injection which was replaced with dual Weber carbs. The carbs, per the listing, were sourced from Italy. Does the carb conversion hurt value or enhance it?

If anyone knows, is that an original paint color for the 1972 model year?

Does the interior look completely original to everyone?

Do the changes to the wheels or the suspension impact desirability or enhance it? Does the fuel tank changeover affect desirability at all?

All in all, it seems to be a relatively correct/intact car to my eyes. But, I need those more knowledgeable to help point out where there were changes and if these are acceptable generally or out of line.

Any input/reaction/insights are greatly appreciated.
 

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Hi, great looking car. First of all, different people have different views on whether standard, or modified is best. My cars have always been modified, others love them to be original
In my mind, conversion to Webers is a good thing. Certainly won't harm the value.
The GTA wheels always look good , however, they look to be 6 x 14 rather than 7 x 14. Suspension changes, again are as subjective as any other mods. If done correctly they would definitely enhance your enjoyment of the car.
I'm no expert on original GTV interiors, but it looks pretty standard to me.
Not sure on body colour either, at first glance probably not original, but I may be wrong, as it looks metallic.
Hope that helps
Steve
 

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I thought I would open this to find some horror of Enkei wheels, viper yellow, cheesy interior. This is a very tasteful car done to what seems a very high standard. I am guessing they want north of $40k for it? The color does seem to be Verde Pino which is an original color. The car has very nice and desirable over-rider-less european bumpers and lighting. My only comment is that while I adore the color combination, I have always found the later model GTV interiors in non-black colors to feel somewhat cheap. Go see it in person to see if you feel the same way. Many sports cars had vinyl interiors and this is not a bad thing, but the brown always feels very plasticey to me, and this is on top of the fact that the 2000 interior already verges on too plasticey.

If the price is up where I think it is and you're comfortable in that range (the cars are worth it, I'm not suggesting anything else) I would consider the earlier ones. The funny thing about GTVs is that it seems well restored dealer sold cars have very little price delta between 2000's, 1750's, stepnose 1600's. Almost everyone prefers them in the reverse order that I listed. That is obviously a gross simplification. I myself have and love a 2000, but the interiors and exteriors generally did not get better from 1964-1974, however the mechanicals, engine, brakes and fuel injection certainly did. In my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This particular GTV is sold. I personally love it. I personally love the color combo and the look of the car, but again, not being very familiar with Alfa's in general, was looking for aspects of what was for sale here that would turn off a prospective buyer.

I do believe that this car had its original engine, 5 speed transmission, and rear end. However, the fuel injection as noted was removed but was converted to Webers. This step in many older Italian cars is not a bad thing.

Maserati in the early 60's used Lucas fuel injection and while these cars may be upwards of $200,000, converting the FI to Webers is generally not worthy of a price penalty. Actually may be a more reliable option.

In this sold Alfa, the gas tank is a newer more modern unit. The yellow coils are an upgrade obviously. The bumpers are from a prior year.

I guess what I am asking is: for these era Alfas, that kind of blending of modern (gas tank), older than and newer than the factory spec is it generally acceptable to mix and match this way?
 

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converting the FI to Webers is generally not worthy of a price penalty. Actually may be a more reliable option.
Depends on who you ask. Me, I like Webers and wouldn't own a car with spica fuel injection. But others swear by it.

One comment on the green GTV you provided the link to: The Weber conversion was done very well. Whoever did it installed the proper, factory parts used on the European models. The Euro manifold and linkage just work a whole lot better than adapting Webers to the spica manifold. Those parts, coupled with the factory air filter, are be original for a European delivery car. So you could question whether this is really a "modification", or just a "Europeanization".

There are ways of converting a spica car to Webers that aren't as high quality, either functionally or visually.

I guess what I am asking is: for these era Alfas, that kind of blending of modern (gas tank), older than and newer than the factory spec is it generally acceptable to mix and match this way?
As GTA-R wrote: "different people have different views on whether standard, or modified is best".

I'll tell you a funny story: I was a judge at a recent Alfa national concours. At the national level, AROC's judging rules specify that points be deducted for any modifications. An entrant got into a discussion with me about the reasonableness of this criteria. Basically his argument was: "any modification that I make should be OK, but anything beyond that is obviously wrong". I think a lot of people share that reasoning (or lack thereof).
 

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I'm not sure I see where the fuel tank is non original? The tank in the photo is in fact original, it may have had its neck shortened to accommodate modern pump nozzles. I'd say that everything done to this car, including the hopped up engine and webers is not a detriment to value. I consider myself fairly grouchy when it comes to modifications and this car doesn't irk me. If you understand the 911 market at all, I'd say these are similar (but less overheated). ie if you were shopping for a late 70's early 80's 911 there is a roster of fairly common mods that increase reliability and draw on the aesthetic moves of previous generations and mechanical improvements of later ones but dont change the spirit of the car. I would say that having the original paint color is a huge plus, and not having any home spun, outsider-artist mods is what saves it. Like Porsches, there is a huge appreciation for well conceived upgrades. I wouldn't let webers stop me from buying a good car, but I do think that SPICA is an unbelievably good system and like MFI in Porsches, will come to be seen as enviable and desirable.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is interesting but this kind of conversation would be considered heresy if we were talking a 1960's era Corvette! Top dollar goes to an original or as original Porsche 911.

I guess Italian cars from this era get a bit more leeway on what is and is not acceptable.That is helpful. If I am lucky to find a GTV close to the one in the link, I think I would jump at it.

Thanks everyone for your input.
 

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I think we need to differentiate between what is "acceptable to the Alfa community" and what detracts from value when you go to sell. Just because people on the BB don't laugh at a modification doesn't mean that they wouldn't offer less if they were buying the car. In general an original car will sell for more, whether it is a Porsche, Corvette, or Alfa Romeo.

This just occurred to me - I'm not saying it is a hard and fast rule - but in ascending order of modifications that detract from value:

- Adding factory, European parts to a US-delivery Alfa, such as the Weber conversion on the car discussed in this thread's first post.
- Adding period-correct, bolt-on accessories, such as GTA wheels or a Nardi steering wheel.
- Non period-correct, but bolt on stuff: Recaro seats, headers, extra-wide wheels, etc.
- Modifications that involve cutting or welding, such as flared wheel arches. Paint in non-factory colors.
 

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I am relatively new to Alfa cars. I understand that, if there is such a thing, "tasteful modifications" to these cars is pretty much accepted in the Alfa community and do not materially affect desirability or resale prices. Some may actually add to value. What I am looking to better understand is what upgrades are desirable and which are tabu?

I have been looking for an original 1970-1973 GTV coupe and came upon this example which was sold months ago. However, I would like thoughts from the community on what is and is not acceptable with the car.

Here's the link:
1972 Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 ? Northeast Sportscar

I understand that this car came with original fuel injection which was replaced with dual Weber carbs. The carbs, per the listing, were sourced from Italy. Does the carb conversion hurt value or enhance it?

If anyone knows, is that an original paint color for the 1972 model year?

Does the interior look completely original to everyone?

Do the changes to the wheels or the suspension impact desirability or enhance it? Does the fuel tank changeover affect desirability at all?

All in all, it seems to be a relatively correct/intact car to my eyes. But, I need those more knowledgeable to help point out where there were changes and if these are acceptable generally or out of line.

Any input/reaction/insights are greatly appreciated.
I'd agree that the car is relatively correct and intact... restored with originality in mind, but not rigidly so. But I don't think this would be a 95+ point car at a national AROC event due to the modifications (Jay may be better to answer that since he was a judge at a recent event)... incorrect bumpers, weber conversion, side marker changes, redone interior seat vinyl, door panels and carpets, after market shift knob, missing reflectors on the door panels, torn door gaskets, euro tail light lenses, possibly non-stock seat belts and missing trunk liners and mats. The fuel tank "change over" is a non-issue (looks correct to me) as well as the period correct wheel upgrade. Don't get me wrong.. its a nice car in a correct period color combo... but its not a great, original car in my opinon. Tasteful modifications is a very subjective matter... everyone has a different opinion (I swear by my SPICA and I prefer my original bumpoers with the over-riders...). Ultimately, its up to the owner and what they prefer.
 

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I've had more Spica than Weber cars, see the benefits of each. I wouldn't convert one to the other. All things equal, I like Spica better.

Andrew
 

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I don't think this would be a 95+ point car at a national AROC event due to the modifications (Jay may be better to answer that since he was a judge at a recent event)... incorrect bumpers, weber conversion, side marker changes, redone interior seat vinyl, door panels and carpets, after market shift knob, missing reflectors on the door panels, torn door gaskets, euro tail light lenses, possibly non-stock seat belts and missing trunk liners and mats.
Wow bellagt, good attention to detail! I didn't study the pictures that carefully, but all the anachronisms you point out would result in well over 5 points being deducted. You going to be anywhere near Rhode Island in July? There may be a career opportunity for you!

This isn't to say that the Verde Pino GTV isn't a great car. You can have more fun - at least more worry-free fun - with a lower point car, than with a 100 pointer!
 

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Hei, that's the former Green Bert from our friend and fellow member Fred F. :)
Yes, it is a beauty, Fred drove me and my wife in that Bert in the New York region/Long Island in 2008!
 

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You going to be anywhere near Rhode Island in July? There may be a career opportunity for you!
!
Unfortunately I won't be near RI in July. Spotting the unoriginal, upgrades or incorrect repairs/restorations is certainly easy when you’re an owner of a surviving, unmolested and unrestored car. Were you one of the judges at the 2013 convention? If so, my thanks for the 95+ point score … and now I know why I didn’t see higher numbers with my euro rear lenses and repro-mahogany shift knob! But those were my tasteful mods that certainly should have been acceptable.... LOL!
 

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Were you one of the judges at the 2013 convention? If so, my thanks for the 95+ point score … and now I know why I didn’t see higher numbers with my euro rear lenses and repro-mahogany shift knob!
Yes, 2013 in Sonoma. Actually, I was the "chief judge" which means I put the cars into classes, recruited a few judges (many had volunteered), grouped judges into teams, and assigned teams to classes. So most of my work was done before the convention and I didn't do any "hands on" judging on the day of the concours.

But those were my tasteful mods that certainly should have been acceptable..
Of course! Euro rear lenses and repro-mahogany shift knobs are safety equipment:laugh:. But anything else is an abomination of nature.
 

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I'm not sure how a mahogany shift knob counts as safety equipment, but my center-high third brake light mounted on the rear parcel shelf did qualify as a non-deduct item for both safety and as an abomination.:)
 
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