[AG Jeff]

The Alfa Romeo Spider will not be based on the new Mazda MX-5 like many believed.


According to a report from CAR, Harold Wester, brand chief for Alfa Romeo and Maserati, has confirmed that the new Spider will be developed in-house instead of in collaboration with Mazda.

“As far as the Spider goes, the final version is of course no longer the two-seater FCA codeveloped with Mazda but a derivative of project Giorgio,” said Wester. Project Giorgio is the internal name being used for the Italian automaker’s new rear-wheel drive architecture that will be underpinning several future Alfa Romeo models.

SEE ALSO: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C vs 2005 Acura NSX

But that doesn’t mean that the MX-5-based Alfa Romeo is dead. In fact, that model will likely be branded as a Fiat or Abarth model now according to Wester. So that means that we can look forward to two new Alfa Romeo sports cars in the near future.

Read more here: Alfa Romeo Spider Won't be Mazda Based » AutoGuide.com News

 

[greenehoosier]

Thanks!

 

[Vivace]

We knew that. On the one hand that means it will be several years away, heavier than an MX-5, and based on a sedan.

On the other hand, the GTV and Spider were based on the Giulia Super and look how great that was! So there's hope!

 

[Zinhead]

The Giorgio chassis is the one that currently underpins the Maserati Ghibli. It will be a rather large sized Spider then.

 

[Lokki]

I'm a little curious after reading this news as to where the new Alfa Spider will fit into the price range. The 4C is very reasonably priced in the mid to upper $50K range. Assuming that the Madza-mate Spider still come about at about the mid $20K to $30K range (a complete guess but that would place it near but above the neo-Miata), where does that leave the pricing of this car? I can't see it slotting above the 4C, so I would guess that it would have to be the obvious - it will be in the $40K's. I hope that is the case... As, for me anyhow, that would be 'affordable' (whether or not Mrs. Lokki agrees that it is affordable is a bridge to be crossed in ?2020?).

That would give Fiat/Alfa sports cars at the $20K(Abarth 500), $30K(Fiat Spider), $40(Alfa Spider), and $50K (4C) price points. Is there really enough room in the market for all these sports cars? I hope so.


Note FWIW-

I don't have a lot of historical data, but I do know that the base price of my 1971 Spider Veloce was $4705 according to Road & Track magazine which an inflation calculator tells me would be about $28K in today's thinner dollars.

 

[scuderiatc]

I am not just curious, I am concerned.
The Alfa brand is NOT established in North America like it once was. Its one thing to have basically niche cars like the 4c and 8c, that are really expensive toys, but not really profit drivers. If Alfa does not establish at least one entry level car, to re-establish what it once was, (the affordable exotic, family man's sportscar, or any other number of things that at least in North America really made it famous and established it as more than just an expensive Fiat) it can kiss the North American market good bye (again). Alfa needs to have a DNA and soul that customers can identify with. Alfa cant capitalize on this not matter how much marketing it does, if the cars dont align with that. Alfa hit its sweet spot in the 60's when it developed the mass production cars that were not only great sports cars / sports sedans all, but relatively affordable.
If you re-body a Maserati, and end up with essentially a convertible GT, priced around $50k, you will not achieve that at all, and people will not associate it with Alfa Romeo history. They will see a big fancy Italian car, that while beautiful, is not practical, and pretty expensive. With Alfa still something of a mystery and an unknown quantity to most Americans, when they are looking for what will essentially be a third car/toy, why are they going to take a chance with an Italian brand whose last memories at best were as a company who sold two cars: a slow sportscar with dated styling and an undeserved reputation for unreliability, and a sedan with known electrics issues, that no one could really consider over an Accord or 3 series, and was priced much higher than the first, and about the same as the second.
I was excited about the Mazda collaboration because the Miata is more in vein with the original Alfa Spider, especially in price, than the Maserati GT convertible with an Alfa grille on its nose that we are probably going to probably get, and part of what made the Miata famous was not just the gearheads and sportscar nuts that bought them because they are such good sportscars, but all of the people that bought them because they were neat little affordable cars that were a blast to drive, with awesome engineering, and were affordable to get. -just like Alfa's were at one time.
Just my $.02.

 

[Vivace]

$.02 well spent. You make some very good points.

For what it's worth, the test mules recently spotted around doing winter testing are rough bucks cloaked in Maserati shells, but they don't fit. The car underneath appears to be shorter and narrower - it doesn't fit the body shell. And that's probably the sedan version they're testing.

How much smaller and lighter (and less costly) is up in the air I'm sure.

 

[scuderiatc]

Thanks.
Most new cars are not anywhere near light, especially when equipped in the luxury category. The average VW Golf is about 3000 lbs.
In regards to price, unfortunately, the brand manager, Reid Bigland, has already stated otherwise:
No Budget Alfas Says Brand Boss » AutoGuide.com News

He is a Canadian from Chrysler whose career was mostly managing the trucks.

 

[Vivace]

"When we asked Bigland if we’ll be able to buy a $29,000 Alfa he quickly responded, “Unfortunately not,” before pausing and adding, “I don’t want to say never.” "

Interesting.

I agree with you, but haven't we been told over the years that a Duetto cost about the same as an E-Type new? I've always had the impression that they were a cheap or at least reasonable small sports car, but that's because we grew up in the era of tired used ones with little value.

RE: weight - exactly! My "BIG" car, a Volvo 850 wagon, is 3200 lbs! Park it next to a new Subaru wagon and the Volvo is much smaller.

 

[scuderiatc]

According to NADA guide, Base MSRP for:
1967 Alfa Duetto - $3950.00
1967 Corvette 327/350 convertible - $4141.00
1967 Jaguar XKE Roadster - $5870.00

I would not call the Alfa a cheap car, but less than an E-Type, and only a little more than a small block Corvette.
The Guilia Super was about $2900.00 in 1967, so the sedans were considered more entry level than the Duetto of course.

 

[Vivace]

Good info. Yes, $2000 difference was a significant chunk of money.

The new Miata MX-5 will weigh 2200 lbs (impressive) and cost somewhere just above $25,000.

So if the new Alfa isn't Miata-based, what's the next group of competitive real sports cars in pricing and size? Or will it jump way up to a luxury, priced-somewhere-under-Maserati-level car?

 

[scuderiatc]

It certainly gets complicated at this point. I dont think that even if the Alfa Spider WERE based upon the Miata, anyone would think it shouldn't be upmarket from that. However, how much further upmarket, considering factors such as Alfa wishing to re-establish itself profitably in the N.A. market, other cars in the class of cars Alfa intends to build, and of course managing the relevancy of what initially at least is perceived as a new brand here.

If we assume that the price ought to be above $25k, and look at the next available class up, it would probably be the Corvette roadster and Porsche Boxter, at about $54k each.
If you look at pricing for the Corvette, and look at difference in price from 1967, ($4141) and 2015 ($54000) its currently about 13 times more. So, if you add 13 times more to the price of the 1967 Alfa Duetto ($3950) you get about $51350. Still probably in the class of the Vette and Boxter.
The question is, how would this hypothetical Alfa Spider compete in this class with these cars, and should it? I certainly cannot imagine a potential Corvette buyer also considering the new Alfa Spider, no matter how much the performance is competetive, (unless of course its dramatically less expensive).
The 4C has already been compared to the Boxter, and its priced similarly. With the 4C Spider comming soon, would another "Spider" in this category from Alfa, probably needing similar performance, make sense at all? And, there would still be no entry-level car to attract new buyers to the brand.

 

[maseratiguy]

I am assuming most Miatas will be about 30k with an option or two. The Fiat version maybe comparable, (maybe a touch less?) If Alfa could build a spider in the mid $30K range maybe loaded topping out at $45K and with slightly better interior and performance than the Miata/Fiat that would make sense and slot it in under the more track focused 4C.....But on what platform can they do this? Do they have one? Would it have to be bespoke? Are they willing?
Just as an aside, I went to the local Autozone and was talking to the guy behind the counter, when he asked me what car I was working on I said, "a '83 Alfa Spider".
He asked, "who makes it?" ....I said it is an Alfa Romeo ...their own brand...he responded, "Never heard of them"!

 

[Vivace]

Then you wonder, are you putting it in a new category / price point at 45k, or are you out in no-man's-land all by yourself, and no one knows what to do with it.

 

[Little Italian]

No More

After reading through this entire thread of posts (14), I sit back in my easy chair and think to myself. "They ain't making anymore" - a reflection on the fact that I have three ... A '71 GTV, a '83 GTV-6. and a real nice '86 Spider Veloce. Thank God I still have mine.

 

[maseratiguy]

I think there will be a market for a sports car in this price range, as it has been vacated by Z4's Boxsters etc. It will just have to give good enough bang for the $$. I.e. Base boxster performance or there abouts with more sex appeal.

 

[Mound Dawg]

Just out of interest, Top Gear have driven the new 124 Spider- seems like it's rather good.


First drive: the turbocharged Fiat 124 Spider | Top Gear