Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
In the process of removing the engine from my Montreal, I have also tried to clean up the Engine Bay in general, and there was something that was mentioned some time ago about a re-enforcing plate to stiffen the Steering Box mounting to the body. I removed the bolts that hold my Steering Box to the Wheelhouse Inner. There are 3 Grade 8.8 bolts, and I noticed that on closer inspection, the bolts were slightly bent. Not in the main shank portion of the bolt, but through the threaded section. All 3 bolts had the same characteristics, they were difficult to turn for a few threads and then would loosen up, only to tighten up again and so forth until the bolt came out completely. In checking them with a straight edge, I noticed the shank portion was straight, but the threaded portion was bent by up to 1.0mm. The bolts had been tight when I removed them, so the bending cannot be attributed to loose fasteners flexing in the body.
I have been working on developing a Re-enforcement Plate for both sides - right and left. I am also upgrading the mounting bolts to Grade 10.9. I will post pictures in the next few days. I would appreciate your feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I got mine from Rob (see link in Derek's post). Good quality, clear instructions, friendly guy, great service. Highly recommended
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
The strengthening plates were recommended for LHD cars.
I guess it wont hurt to put them on RHD cars like mine.

I did it once on a LHD car. There was a little less creaking from the steering wheel.

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
The strengthening plates were recommended for LHD cars.
I guess it wont hurt to put them on RHD cars like mine.

I did it once on a LHD car. There was a little less creaking from the steering wheel.

Steve
I believe Karl has a RHD car even though he is in Michigan now -from Australia. I wonder if the car was ever involved in a front end impact or maybe jumped a curb that could have bent those bolts? I just checked all three bolts that were removed from my steering box and all are straight. Interestingly when I cleaned them, removing black spray paint, all three bolt heads have green paint on them. I suspect these were inspected at the factory and painted green to indicate that they were (once) tight.

My reinforcement plates (inner and outer on the left side only) for the steering box came from Rob in the UK as well. I asked and he supplied the proper length through bolt and nylock nut for the bottom lug. Originally my bolts were fairly loose compared with the torque specification he provided. Steering feels a bit more taught and confident now; or at least I do.

Karl, if you want these original LOBO bolts just let me know.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Alfa Montreal - Steering

Here are some pictures of the Steering Reinforcement Plates mounted on both the RHS and LHS of the car with Grade 10.9 Bolts, As you can see, the Plates have been reinforced with 3 Gussets running from the bolt holes to the center of the plates to minimize flexing across the flat surface. This should put finish to Steering Flex!!!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
By the way, the lengths of the Bolts is different side to side. The Bolts that screw "into" the Steering Box are shorter. The longer Bolts go on the opposite side need the length because of the Nuts required. Just a note to anyone working on their Steering Assembly!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,929 Posts
I'm not understanding why you put in higher grade bolts? Sure the 8.8's bent but most importantly they didn't break, which is what you want and absolutely need for steering.

Best
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The Grade 10.9 bolts are stronger than the Grade 8.8 bolts. They are less prone to bending under the same loads. It was my choice to fit the stronger fasteners. You do not have to. You can choose the original LOBO bolts that had a 8.8 Grade rating.
The comparison is as follows:
Grade 8.8: Medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered. Proof Load (MPa)-600. Min. Yield Strength - 660 Min. Tensile Strength - 830
Grade 10.9: Alloy Steel, quenched and tempered. Proof Load - 830 Min. Yield Strength - 940 Min. Tensile Strength - 1040
Google it mate! You will find the same results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
BTW, in Tensile strength, that is a 25% improvement, and a 42% improvement in Yield Strength. Proof Load would be up by 38%. Costs a couple of bucks more, but well worth it in my opinion. Cheers!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I would like to mention that in making the Reinforcement Plates for the Montreal Steering, I made up a couple of extra sets.
If you are interested, they come as a Set with 2 Reinforcing Plates, Grade 10.9 Bolts, Nuts and Washers. PM me please. Thank you.

Happy New Year to you all!!!


Karl Robertson
[email protected]
248) 766 9141
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Alfa Montreal - Steering / Reinforcement Plates and Bolts

As in any forum, I know there will always be a debate about most things, that is great!
Anyway, since I have removed all the Bolts and added the Re-enforcement Plates and upgraded Bolts, I went back and decided to check the Grade 8.8 LOBO fasteners from Alfa Romeo. Guess what? 2 Bolts were bent on the Steering Box Side (mine is a RHD car) but mainly through the threaded portion of the bolts. On the other side, there are longer bolts and nuts. 2 of them were also bent, through the threaded section of the Grade 8.8 LOBO Bolts. I am not sure how many of you have removed these bolts and checked them recently. I for one am happy to have replaced them with new Grade 10.9 Bolts!!!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,929 Posts
Robo,

I only mentioned or questioned going to a harder bolt because the harder you go the more likely the bolt will snap instead of bending. Now being part of the steering system, you don't want snapping.

To be honest I did not know you could get harder/stronger bolts than 8.8, so I've learnt something ... and yeah I have no idea how hard a bolt has to be before we have to worry about snapping?

I'm as fascinated as you that ALL the original bolts bent, amazing. And nice job on the reinforcement plates.
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Grade 10.9 Bolts do not break. They are a stronger version of the Grade 8.8 Bolts. Please Google it and you can reference all the comparative data yourself. I can assure you that I would not be using them on my car if I thought there was any possibility of them breaking. They are not required for all applications, but in areas where there are Bending Loads involved, they are a good alternative. For your information, they are considerably more expensive and may be the reason why manufacturers do not use them often.

The Grade 10.9 bolts are stronger than the Grade 8.8 bolts. They are less prone to bending under the same loads. It was my choice to fit the stronger fasteners. You do not have to. You can choose the original LOBO bolts that had a 8.8 Grade rating.
The comparison is as follows:
Grade 8.8: Medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered. Proof Load (MPa)-600. Min. Yield Strength - 660 Min. Tensile Strength - 830
Grade 10.9: Alloy Steel, quenched and tempered. Proof Load - 830 Min. Yield Strength - 940 Min. Tensile Strength - 1040

Karl Robertson
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Pete,
Sorry, I mis-stated that Grade 10.9 Bolts do not break. Of course the can break, but at much higher bending loads. In other words, the higher grade Alloy Steel is more durable under load and for me, it's cheap insurance - 6 Bolts - !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
As with most of the things I have been doing here on the Alfa Montreal forum, I have made a few extra Kits. The Kit includes 2 X off Reinforcement Plates that have been strengthened with gussets welded in, 2 X off Grade 10.9 Bolts for the Steering Box side, 2 X off Longer Grade 10.9 Bolts, Niloc Nuts and Washers. They work for both RHD and LHD models. The Plates go on the outside of the Frame / Body. Attached is a picture. Those of you who are interested, please let me know. There is a lot of work involved in making these. PM me or send me an e-mail to: [email protected]

Karl Robertson
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
just installed

I bolted on a set this weekend and they fit beautifully. They are very well made.

In addition to protecting the steering box, it also felt like they made the steering firmer. (There still remains that great dead spot on center, but that is a challenge for another day!)

--Charlie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thank you Charlie.
I appreciate your positive comments! Anyone else here needs a set? Let me know, because they take a while to make.

Karl Robertson
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I would just like to post this note regarding the Montreal Steering Reinforcement Kit I developed. This was done for my car, and now that the Engine has been re-built and is running well, I have had the opportunity to put some miles on the car. During the road testing I have noticed that the Steering has firmed up considerably. Response at the Steering Wheel is immediate without the usual delay before turn in. I don't want this to sound like an endorsement for my own product! But it is!!
Anyone looking to improve the steering on their Montreal, please let me know. Currently, I have 1 Set left. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
The last Set has been sold. If anyone else is interested, you will have to give me some advance notice as the next batch will have to be made. Thanks!
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top