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History of AR1425234

@71 Monti

In what condition was the car when you sold it? Had it been in an previous accident, and if yes, where etc. Any "partial repaint" is never done just for the fun of it. I may be off, but it also appears the doors fit lines are not quite perfect.
Perhaps your historical knowledge of this particular Monti may assist us, the wanna haves, making a better informed decision if it's even worth flying out to see it.

Thanks
 

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I don't know much about Montreals, but this one down in FL for $23k looks like a much better deal, unless there are lots of undisclosed issues.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I have to wonder if the listing I posted above is for real. Could this be a scam? The listing says that the car's in Florida, but the pics sure don't look like Florida to me. Of course it could have moved recently. Who knows....
 

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davbert.. No. Please re-read my post. I did NOT say my Monty was more capable than the EVO. I said it left me in its smoke in a drag-off up an entrance ramp. Note that I'm not even sure it was an EVO, just a small Mitsubishi with lots of bling making a hellacious racket as it disappeared quickly into the distance. The one things I can say about the Montreal's capability at this point is that it has more handling than power, particularly while doing the hill climb up to Tahoe. My Mazda 6 GT has about equal amounts of both. I reckon the Alfa would be happier with about 80 - 100 more HP, but I don't see me being motivated to make that happen.
 

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MontrealMonti; I had a small accident (rear ended a car) and ended up having to replace the front nose piece (I found an NOS replacement in a warehouse in Italy), so the front of the car was repainted after the repairs were made. Sometime in the cars past it was repainted from metallic orange to red and it was "skim coated" (1/4 to 3/8 in. thick) with bondo, those are the cracks that can be seen in the picture of the rear hatch. The main reason for selling it was that it was very uncomfortable to sit in, the seats are from a sedan and are too high, that's why the naugahyde covers have the wrong pattern. Also, here's a link to the BaT article when I had it listed for sale.
1971 Alfa Romeo Montreal
 

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Thanks! Either the seller is paying attention to this thread or someone told him the facts, 'cause the listing no longer says "Original, untouched, unmolested and uncut". Next thing you know the price drops to something nearer its real value.

So, they're not the optional Bertone leather seats after all? Do you know what car they came from?
 

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Thanks! Either the seller is paying attention to this thread or someone told him the facts, 'cause the listing no longer says "Original, untouched, unmolested and uncut". Next thing you know the price drops to something nearer its real value.

So, they're not the optional Bertone leather seats after all? Do you know what car they came from?
Hallo Tor :001_smile:
I own a german price list where the Montreal is offered with "extras optional: leather interior + sun roof". The seats look like original in the very perfect hand made like a profi is doing it (and they are old). Maybe I am wrong and the leather cover is from a GT 1. serie ???

Generally I don't want to be arrogant or impolite - but for me this car is NOT worth 60k ! I was watching the less technic pics more than 1 x and there is not much enough of details to see, the paint is not the first and the interior looks to me like parking 25 years in a corner. About the engine, spica, gearbox, axles, steeringbox, original kilometer, old electric etc I won't say much far of this car for any personal check, but when we will offer our Montreal (what of course is not 100 % perfect) I will take maybe less... My fist and second view on screen let me NOT spend 60.Ks,there are a lot arround in much better condition. Just to see the original first (OLD) cables, who are a base for much trubble, nothing changed to new/in old look like today to get, etc.... ! 60thousend is a high number what will be earned and you don't know the secret little sicknesses of this baby. I guess this offer (like a lot these days) is a try to make quick money after the 2 US offers/solds what let some guys hoping for getting a "millionair"... pfff
The sound of seller is very interesting: firstly he is impolite and "in the wrong movie"!! and secondly he maybe knows quite good that something of his long text is just a fairy tale ?? No reason for him to be so nasty, or (like we germans say) : This horse has rotten teeth... (?)

Hope you and family is ok?!
Take care
Hannelore
 

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Well, wouldn't we be happy if he got either his previous price, or this one? It would certainly make me feel better for the cost and effort I'm putting into mine.
 

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I don't know much about Montreals, but this one down in FL for $23k looks like a much better deal...Now that I think of it, I have to wonder if the listing I posted above is for real. Could this be a scam? The listing says that the car's in Florida, but the pics sure don't look like Florida to me.
Good detective work! I can see mountains/hills on the upper left hand side of the photo below - looks more like California than Florida.

 

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Hello Hannelore! :)

I own a german price list where the Montreal is offered with "extras optional: leather interior + sun roof". The seats look like original in the very perfect hand made like a profi is doing it (and they are old). Maybe I am wrong and the leather cover is from a GT 1. serie ???
Ok, did the seats in the "German leather seat option" and the "Bertone leather seat option" look the same? Are your Monti seats maybe copies of the official Alfa Romeo Deutschland optional leather seats? Just curious.

I'm slightly confused since I've seen many pictures of what is claimed to be "original leather seats", but none of them looked the same. Some were claimed to be "Connolly leather", others simply "leather" while others again looked like naugahyde- or skai-style car seats with no pumped up claims.

At least now we know that the red eBay Montreal (#5234) have naugahyde seats. In other words, fake leather. Fair enough, but pretty far from the almost mythical factory option.


Generally I don't want to be arrogant or impolite - but for me this car is NOT worth 60k !
I agree, and certainly not $100k. Then again, if somebody pays $100k that's what it was worth at the time of the sale. Still, I would have a hard time justifying to a third party why it was worth more than $30k. It would take a lot of time and money to bring this one up to the standard of, say, Mike's blue Montreal.

Hope you and family is ok?!
All is well! Quite busy at the moment after starting my own business in January. When I'm a millionaire I will come and buy your 145 ;)

Ins zwischen alles gute! :)
 

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Good detective work! I can see mountains/hills on the upper left hand side of the photo below - looks more like California than Florida.
The same picture and most of the description can be found here. The seller's area code is 704, which is North Carolina.
 

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Relevant to "what's it worth?"

I paid 29,500 for mine a little over a year ago. Some people might have said that I overpaid by perhaps 5k - 10k, but immediately after buying I got a couple of notes from guys essentially saying "which I had moved more quickly", at least one of whom had made a lower offer that probably seemed more in line with the market of the previous year.

I've now got about 60k in it, and have not yet tackled much of the engine bay. The reality of it is that a nice, presentable Montreal THAT HAS BEEN WELL MAINTAINED is going to cost this much. I think the day of the attractive driver for 20k is about 24 months in our rear view mirror. I got caught on mine because it appeared to be well maintained and had been looked after by a reputable Alfa mechanic that I know, but in reality a lot of stuff was worn out. It's all fixed now, and this car will drive for a long time without further chassis maintenance. Once the engine bay is cleaned up and tuned, it'll be good to go for a very long time.

60k, I think, is a reasonable price for a well-maintained driver that needs nothing to enjoy. If it has mechanical issues, rust, discoverable damage, then the price comes down because the costs go up.
 

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4th march car is offered for 24.000$, yesterday to see for 60.000$, today .. 100.995$ and tomorrow is 1st Arpril - then 1 Mio ???

Ha ha ha, can't stopp to laugh. What a discount, I should hurry not to miss this big special offer.

:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:
Hannelore
 

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AR1425234

71 Monti:
Thank you for putting the facts straight in providing real info. much appreciated.

Hannelore: You gave me a good laugh. I bet you can smell a bad one, or even a medium monti from far away.

What's worse, Not having a Montreal, or having a bad one?
 

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Hannelore: You gave me a good laugh. I bet you can smell a bad one, or even a medium monti from far away.

What's worse, Not having a Montreal, or having a bad one?
good morning,

well, to have a bad one is no problem - our start was with a bad one and got later a BIG investment of work and money (more worth than a 2nd car). But the price for a car must be realistic when I know that much money is still to pump in a car to make it safe and in acceptable condition for the owner. The first years when we used the car it was after a "quick" resto in shape(see photos of first resto) -3 (1 is perfect) just to have fun and enjoyment of this beauty. When the restoration started we said: one time nearly perfect that all the efforts let us no more thinking about any further restoration in some years. It needed many years to finish (some years we did not touch it by job or sickness etc.) than we spend weekends over years to restore, to buy so many new parts, cables, tubes, screws (shop had a red carpet for us because the car got nearly all screws new and the guy was smiling, hmmm). I was proud to help in many corners of Monti what helped Dirk to safe time for the big things. The restoration what we nearly did all time together let me grow to have a look for details like the windows, all chrome around the car, the interior etc. etc. I enjoyed it very much to be the third hand Dirk need - and this make the moment so great when we turned key first time and the V8 vrooom let beat our hearts faster. You should see our smile ! Later you see what you missed or made wrong, sure... Of course was this restoration not our profession, we were looking a bit with blue eyes in future: what I can dismantle I can also put together again - can't be a so big problem. Ja ja...

I never look down to people who can't repair anything on their car and let this job do others. Maybe they can do things I never learn - this makes it equal. But the connection to this car we have is written with blood from our fingers, sometimes lost here and there on sharp edges. :wacko:

To own a Montreal - or any other Oldtimer - is always a love affair and no question of shape but the price must be in relation to the condition. In this red Montreal (I make a bet) is still much to invest, I don't believe that you just jump in and drive away for years without problems. Just the price and how it grew let my head shake like my hips when I was dancing Twist in the 60th. The price inflation of this car in a few days is ridiculous and let me think that the 24.000$ of march 4th was realistic of cars shape - but fast money can make some hungry.

Definitive, it is worse to have NO Montreal (in any condition) ! :punk:

Just some less thoughts...
hannelore
 

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Well, to have a bad one is no problem.
Definitive, it is worse to have NO Montreal (in any condition) !
Well, at least that is expertly settled then. Thanks Hannelore.
Now I got to decide which of my two Fiat spiders must go to make space. . . .
I am curious now how, say in 5 years, we look back on a "$60000 buys you a mediocre Montreal" world. Wish I had moved in couple years back. Buy the best you can afford, and reserve a bag of money equivalent to the purchase price for maintenance seems to apply here too.
The sad things is that Montreals are so rare that one rarely gets to see one, let alone get an opportunity to drive a few to get a feel of what a bad one and what a good one looks and feels like. :sad:
 

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I'm still on the fence regarding "no Montreal vs bad one".

I'm not new to the antique vehicle restoration restoration habit. So, I know there are periods during the process where I get a bit swamped with "what the %$#* was I thinking?" I'm at that point now.

It's not that the car I bought was a bad one. It was driven in its life, and as I discovered later, there was some indifferently repaired collision damage that I didn't spot during the pre-decision inspection. I understand the concept of "buy the best one you can afford", but I also know that every vehicle that I might buy is a vehicle that someone else really wants to sell. They have their reasons, after all.

My position at this point may go a little counter to others, but somewhat in line with Hannelore.

If you buy a good looking car that appears to have been well-maintained, you will discover a world of expensive items that need doing, which will add a huge amount to the initial outlay to make you happy.

If you buy a car that is clearly in need of a total restoration, you can mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for the long road ahead. When you're done, 3 or 4 years later, you have a perfect car that you can enjoy for a long time.

I would describe the "bad" Montreal the one that looked good but surprises you rather than the stack of boxes that you know is in need of a total makeover.

I think I would rather have no Montreal than a bad one, using my definition of what "bad" means.
 

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Mr. Peterson,
Certainly appreciate your definition of a "bad" car, and you are likely quite close to the truth.
I think one extra factor is to taken into account before venturing into Montreal (or any other classic car). t's the questoning "which one is right for me" question. If you are capable to do the resturation and have the love for it and have the garage space available, then that tired looking car winking at you may well follow you home.
If you do not have the restoration capability yourself, no space to restore it, or enjoy the driving over the welding, then you're likely to overspend on the "buy the one you thought way best" Montreal and end up spending serious money later anyway, considering you can find a proper resto specialist with Montreal knowledge, and no driving for a good while. My answer? I like a reasonably good one which does not require restoration, but doesn't have to be perfect.
Let the search continue.
 

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MMonti,

Mainly I was just venting frustration. I had hoped that the one I bought was one I could clean up, fix a couple of things, and drive a while. The car has not been abused. However, it has been driven and no one is sure of the miles. It says 36,000 on the odometer, but who knows? Anyway, it's just the turn of luck that pretty much everything that can wear out was worn out. The list has been endless. I'm not afraid of complete restorations, and am equipped for it. I just didn't want this car to be one that required that much work. Darn it.

So, a "bad" car is like a "bad" cousin. He's good looking, charming, fun to be around, wants to come visit for a few days, but after a while you realize he never picks up the tab, drinks your good wine and scotch, and has announced that he really intends to stay a long while.
 
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