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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There is a beautiful red 1971 Alfa Romeo Montreal on ebay right now. The car is very well and accurately presented by 'CKustomcinc'. The S/N is AR 1425234. The car is largely original and appears to be in very good 'Survivor' condition with leather seats, original paint and carpet etc, just a few issues that the seller does a nice job of pointing out, rather than trying to hide, which I appreciate.

The listing is a little hard to read due to the large font used and all the space between the lines and letters appears to have been squeezed out. The stating price is a very reasonable (I think) $59,995 and the seller references the recent sales of $99,000 and $176,000 montreals, so he knows the potential. Seller states the car could use a new battery; I think he should have spent the $100 at Autozone to avoid mentioning that short coming.

The radio blank off plate appears to be different and the stainless steel trim on either side of the center console is missing. The head liner looks saggy and the rear hatch cover is carpeted over. I also noticed the wheels have blue and red alfa emblems instead of black and silver. The underside of the car is really nasty and appears to have some corrosion in the spare tire well at least. It could certainly use a good dry ice blasting and repainting to bring the bottom up to the standard of the top. With a deep cleaning and some serious detail work this could be a nice investment.

The car is offered 'without reserve' (other than the starting price of 59,995 which is really a reserve of sorts). The ad is below but I don't know where the photos went so here is a link for now:

Alfa Romeo Other Montreal Spider Duetto 164 4c Bertone Prototype | eBay


eBay Motors>Cars & Trucks>Alfa Romeo>Other

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1967 Alfa Romeo Other MONTREAL SPIDER DUETTO 164 4C BERTONE PROTOTYPE
NO RESERVE CALIFORNIA ORIGINAL SURVIVOR RARE STOCK CLASSIC BERTONE HOT ROD V8 CA
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Seller : ckustomcinc (69 ) 100% Positive feedback
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Item condition:Used
Time left: 6d 02h (Apr 01, 2014 10:15:00 PDT)
Starting bid:US $59,995.00
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Item location:
Alameda, California, United States

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Worldwide
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Description
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eBay item number:111309168310
Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.
Last updated on Mar 25, 2014 22:57:39 PDT View all revisions
Vehicle Specifics for 1967 Alfa Romeo Other MONTREAL SPIDER DUETTO 164 4C BERTONE PROTOTYPE
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Vehicle History Report Not Available
1967 Alfa Romeo Other MONTREAL SPIDER DUETTO 164 4C BERTONE PROTOTYPE
VIN#: AR1425234
Possible Explanations why the report is not available include:
The seller didn't enter the vehicle identification number correctly.
The vehicle is too new to have a history report.
The vehicle was manufactured prior to 1981.
The vehicle didn't have a 17-digit vehicle identification number.
The vehicle wasn't intended for the US market (such as limited production exotics).
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Item specifics
Condition:
Used: A vehicle is considered used if it has been registered and issued a title. Used vehicles have had at ... Read more
VIN (Vehicle Identification Number): AR1425234
Year:
1967
Transmission:
ZF 5-SPEED MANUAL
Make:
Alfa Romeo
Body Type:
COUPE SPORTSCAR HATCHBACK
Model:
Other
Vehicle Title:
Clear
Trim:
MONTREAL SPIDER DUETTO 164 4C BERTONE PROTOTYPE
Options:
WOOD GRAIN STEERING WHEEL, Leather Seats
Engine:
2.6 LITER V8
Safety Features:
SEATBELTS
Drive Type:
REAR-WHEEL DRIVE LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL RWD LSD
Power Options:
Power Windows
Mileage:
48,900
Fuel Type:
Gasoline
Sub Model:
MONTREAL SPIDER DUETTO 164 4C BERTONE PROTOTYPE
For Sale By:
Private Seller
Exterior Color:
Red
Disability Equipped:
No
Interior Color:
Black
Warranty:
Vehicle does NOT have an existing warranty
Number of Cylinders:
8
NO RESERVE!!!
EXTREMELY RARE!
ALL ORIGINAL!
SURVIVOR!
CALIFORNIA CAR!
BERTONE DESIGNED!
1971 ALFA ROMEO
MONTREAL!
FACTORY 2.6 LITER V8!
FACTORY ZF 5-SPEED MANUAL!
FACTORY LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL!
UNTOUCHED!
UNMOLESTED!
UNCUT!
COMPLETELY STOCK!
ITALIAN GT/SPORTSCAR!
TIME CAPSULE!
EXCELLENT INVESTMENT!


Up for auction with NO RESERVE!!! is an extremely rare, all-original, completely stock and unmolested, Bertone Designed, time capsule, California survivor 1967 titled 1971 Alfa Romeo Montreal. This car recently came out of a climate controlled private collection where it was lovingly stored, admired and cared for for the last 15 years and is reluctantly being sold due to the passing of the owner. This car is in wonderful, original condition and is bone stock and not modified, cut or changed from the factory specs. The paint is almost all original except for a few places and shines very well for its age. The chrome and brightwork are in great original condition and look great against the bright red. There are a few small cracks in the paint as seen in the pictures. The glass is all original to the car and in great shape with no nicks or cracks. All the original factory badging is present and correct. The original Alfa Romeo wheels are in fantastic shape and look almost new. There is no curb rash present and they are extremely clean. There are five total including a full size spare in the trunk as seen in the pictures. The tires have plenty of tread and are in great shape. They are not original to the car and have been replaced over the years. The interior is in excellent shape for it's age. This car has the option of leather seats from the factory as well as the factory wood steering wheel both of which are extremely rare options to find on a Montreal. The seats are in great condition with only one small hole on the side of each as seen in the pictures. They have adjustable headrests with wood accents. The dash is un-cracked and very clean for its age. All the gauges work although the speedo can jump a bit every once in a while. The current mileage reads 48,900 and is believed to be original to the car although there is no documentation to show it. The fuel gauge works and appears accurate. The temperature gauge works and appears accurate. The tach works and appears accurate. The dash lights work as does the emergency brake light. These gauges are all in Italian and the speedo is in km/hr. The headlights work, the high work, the brake lights work. The emergency brake works. Power windows was an option and this car is equipped with them. The power windows go up and down freely but could probably use some light lubrication. The heater and defroster appear to work as does the horn. The carpet is clean and in original condition. The headliner is in excellent shape and original to the car. The back seats are in great shape and original to the car with no tears or rips. The factory hatch cover is in great shape and also all original. The trunk is very clean and all the carpet is factory and original. The door panels are in great shape for their age and original to the car. The factory 2.6 Liter Dual Overhead-Cam V8 sounds simply amazing! The factory fuel injection works great with no problems and the engine is extremely clean and well kept as you can see in the pictures. When you rev it and hear the superb sound you understand why Alfa Romeo's derive such passion and love from their owners and car aficionado's the world over. The factory ZF 5-Speed manual transmission shifts great. It is original to the car and goes through all the gears smoothly with no binding or sticking. The factory limited slip differential works great and is original to the car. This car will need a new battery. The factory double wishbone suspension with coil springs makes this car ride great! It is smooth going down the road and is a very comfortable ride. The manual steering works well and really gives the driver a feeling of being connected to the road and increases the driving experience exponentially. The power brakes work great and the car stops in a straight line with no pulling to either side. They could stand to be bled to make sure all the air is out of the system. This car is a complete joy to drive and beyond that is is extremely comfortable for a classic Italian sports car. The car is currently title as a 1967 Alfa Romeo Montreal. In 1967 Alfa Romeo did release two Montreals but they were only prototypes and both are at the Alfa Romeo Museum in Italy presently. The prototypes were equipped with 1600cc 6 cylinder engines. When they went into production they were equipped factory with the 2.6 liter V8 derived from the 33 Stradale and Tipo 33 prototype racer. Although titled as a 1967, this car is actually an early 1971 production model. This is due to import laws back in the 60's through 90's. Alfa Romeo's had to have their titles backdated in order to be imported and sold in the states. This is common among all Montreals exported to the U.S. for sale. The Bertone design is unmistakable and timeless. From 1970-1977 there were 3917 Alfa Romeo Montreals produced and a very small number of those still survive today, let alone being found in the U.S. This is an excellent investment/collector car as recently prices are starting to rise dramatically as these hidden gems are found. This is not a car you can just go out and find. They very rarely come on the market in such original, survivor condition. Most people have never even seen one in person. Earlier this year at the Gooding Auction a 1971 Alfa Romeo sold for $176,000.00. That car was not in original condition and was not equipped with factory leather although it was completely restored. It also has a later production # by about 500 units. The previous year a 1973 sold for $99000.00. Also with a later production #. This shows a 56% increase in 12 months. This car can be enjoyed as a survivor or do a full restoration on the car and when you're finished you will have a $200,000.00 piece of art that you can drive. The original owners manual is included. This is your chance. If you have ever wanted an up and coming Italian sports car that is a phenomenal investment that you can drive and enjoy at the same time. This is the car. This car belongs in a private collection when it can be treated with the same love an enjoyment that the previous owner had. It is truly an Italian Masterpiece and sure to go up in value everyday you own it. The classic car market is on fire right now and is a better investment than stocks or laughable bank interest for an excellent rate of return on your money. This car is being sold at NO RESERVE!!! so don't miss this opportunity to own an extremely rare, original California survivor 1967 Alfa Romeo Montreal!


TERMS OF SALE:

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS: (510)299-3031 OR (925)640-8539.

SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY PLEASE.

THERE IS NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.

THIS VEHICLE IS SOLD AS-IS, WHERE-IS.

I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO END THE AUCTION AT ANY TIME.

PLEASE DO NOT BID IF YOU NEED TO GET A LOAN TO COMPLETE THIS TRANSACTION.

NO DEPOSIT IS NECESSARY BUT FULL PAYMENT IS DUE WITHIN THREE (3) DAYS OF THE AUCTION END.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET AN INSPECTION PLEASE DO SO BEFORE YOU BID AND BEFORE THE END OF THE AUCTION.

I'M HAPPY TO HELP WITH ORGANIZING AN INSPECTION.

I HAVE DONE MY BEST TO COMPLETELY AND ACCURATELY DESCRIBE THIS CAR.

I ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ THE DESCRIPTION COMPLETELY, LOOK AT ALL THE PICTURES AND SEE THE CAR IN PERSON IF POSSIBLE BEFORE BIDDING.

SHIPPING IS THE BUYERS RESPONSIBILITY.

I AM HAPPY TO HELP WITH SHIPPING ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD SO INTERNATIONAL BUYERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO BID!

I AM LOCATED ONLY MINUTES FROM THE PORT OF OAKLAND AND CAN ARRANGE A DROP-OFF!

ZERO (0) FEEDBACK BIDDERS PLEASE CONTACT ME BEFORE YOU BID.

PLEASE LOOK AT MY FEEDBACK AND BID WITH CONFIDENCE.
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Questions and answers about this item
Q: Nice car. I love the red color. It’s time for the market to appreciate the value of these cars.
A: I do agree. Thank you!
Mar 25, 2014
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I contacted him initially as he did not have the actual year the car was made in his first listing. His ad was misleading insinuating it was build in 1967. His response to me via e mail was "Fu$k you"
I see he did finally add the year the car was built.
I agree good looking car but he sounds like a girl on her first prom date. way too effusive. we just want the facts. He did not provide the engine number but I am sure it is original. he seems like a jerk to talk to
 

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Looks like a decent, complete specimen with the usual old museum-like car traits. It's "worn a little round in the corners" as we would say around these parts, but looks quite good. Interesting to see what appears to be the original Bertone leather seats option.

A couple of comments:
  • The wood steering wheel wasn't an option. All Montreals were delivered with a Hellebore steering wheel from the factory.
  • The "corrosion" on the bottom of the spare wheel well appears to be just the now dry undercoating peeling off. Hard to say what's under there though, since the seller seems to be more interested in unimportant scratches in the paint and 15ft exterior shots.
  • What's up with the handbrake assembly? Looks unsafe.
  • The car is not original and should in my opinion not be presented as such. Lots of little things have been replaced, repaired or modified: wheel badges, HT leads, ram air tubes, cigarette lighter replaced with a 12V socket, new and cheaper carpets, painted valve covers, aftermarket horns, black "modern" wipers and exhaust system.
  • It has no hazard flasher button. Was it deleted? Looks like the center console had some repairs done, re the missing trim on it.
Sorry to come across as an arrogant nitpick, but the words "$60,000" and "original" calls for better than this.

Looks like a good Montreal though, provided a PPI with a magnet does not uncover any horrors.
 

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He did not provide the engine number but I am sure it is original.
That's impossible to know anyway, since Alfa never recorded what engine was mated to what chassis. They stopped doing it around 1960. The term "matching numbers" isn't applicable to Alfas made after that.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
TorW, I made a similar list of 'needs' in which you covered most of the items I saw. I noticed also the dash is cracked (like mine) and the brake gaiter looks like an aftermarket replacement. Still compared to the 96,000 and 99,000 cars that sold last year it looks like a good buy to me. The $176,000 car was a 'home run' for the seller and makes this car look like a bargain. That said I would never buy a car sight unseen and would make a trip to CA if I was looking. The power windows were pretty much standard items as were the wood rimmed steering wheels. If you are selling a 60,000 car, you might want to invest $100 in a good battery...

I like the side mirrors on their thin but longer than average stalks and suspect you might actually see what is behind you with them. Is anyone familiar with the manufacturer of these mirrors or where you can get a set? I bought a set of Alfa from Giorgio but they would be very close to the body and the view would be half obscured by the rear hips.

Provided the car is relatively close to the seller’s description, I think he would be wise to invest most likely another 5,000 or so in a complete stem to stern detail and run it through a proven auction. Why not?
Mark (0.02)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
His ad was misleading insinuating it was build in 1967. His response to me via e mail was "Fu$k you"... just want the facts. He did not provide the engine number but I am sure it is original. he seems like a jerk to talk to
The seller has a very good feed back rating (100%) and has sold several cars on ebay and all his buyers 'sing his praises'. I never saw the previous listing that you mentioned but suspect the seller is not a 'real Montreal enthusiast'. Probably a 'ebay lister' for someone else or he is just speculating with this car. He mentioned the previous owner had the car for 15 years until his death, so he hasn't had it for long. The engine number is pretty hard to locate if you are not familiar with Montréal’s.

I've been a seller on ebay for a long time and it can get frustrating dealing with a lot of questions and scammers but he should have been polite.
Mark
 

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Provided the car is relatively close to the seller’s description, I think he would be wise to invest most likely another 5,000 or so in a complete stem to stern detail and run it through a proven auction. Why not?
Because then the 60K dollars wouldn't be so easy? :devil:

The seller seems pretty hung up on VINs, model years and options, which happens to be pretty uninteresting (or even useless) information when it comes to Montreal collectibility and/or desirability, so I assume he's not terribly into Montreals or even period Euro sportscars/GTs in general.

Beware of estate sales peddled by sellers of antiques, knick knack and trinkets.
 

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Obviously with the '67 title it is not a legally entered US car. What he states about Alfa backdating years to legally import is absolutely not true. Granted, many cars have entered and are titled this way but what would happen if the new owner gets burned some how trying to register it. I haven't done this but some owners have registered their illegal cars in another state then retitled the car in their own state. My '72 was imported legally and I have the import and DOT papers to prove it. Now, importing a Montreal is easy and requires no DOT or EPA paperwork. In 2001 I imported a '71 and it was a very easy to do without any government requirements.
 

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Since I am the previously described "deceased owner" I would suggest that anyone seriously interested in this car to have it thoroughly inspected before bidding.
 

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I contacted the seller to tell him that it was appropriate to include the actual year the car was manufactured, and told him he did not need to use vulgar language and this was his response:

People like you need to get life. I can't but feel sorry for you. Do what you would like, its not going to change sometimes opinion of my car or keep them from wanting to purchase it. The great thing about my position is that I don't care if the car sells or doesn't.. son your threats mean nothing to me. Please end all contact with me and I dare you to post slander about me or my vehicle. I have too much money and a very very good lawyer. Thank you!

Not a very pleasant person
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Since I am the previously described "deceased owner" I would suggest that anyone seriously interested in this car to have it thoroughly inspected before bidding.
It is nice to have you back with us 71Monty! Do you currently have, or are you Monty-less at the moment?

OMG, I thought that I had made that bit up by mistake about the "deceased owner" but I went back and checked the listing and he said the Montreal..."is reluctantly being sold due to the passing of the owner." (...pants on fire) I guess he meant to imply 'passing of the keys' from one owner to the next! Always good advice to have an inspection both for a collector (or used) car or a house.

Ener1: At least he improved his language in the second reply. Perhaps the car is 'not so nice' after all! Before I went to look at the Blue Monty, I read all the posts on BaT (Bring a Trailer) about how it was fully restored, etc., etc., as it turned out it was a 'box stock' original (interior) that had one 'fair' respray and some mechanical reconditioning after 35 years in storage. I just went to look and it followed me home...

Mark
 

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the 2 parts I like in the ad is "no reserve".........then has a starting price of 1$ less than 60,000$!
duh! that is already a pretty hefty reserve, if you ask me, for this particular monty.
I'd perfer this one over here, for 10k USD less!
CLASSICON Automobilmarketing KG in Hamburg - Freier Händler-Alfa Romeo, Freier Händler-Mercedes-Benz, Freier Händler-Land Rover, Freier Händler-Porsche

and "headliner is in excellent shape"......well, that looks more like a bedouin tent about to collapse on your head!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Spider,
Perhaps it is just me but I have a strong suspicion the second red Montreal may be a scam. The lister used all his letters up discussing the history of the Montreal but gives little or no useful information about the condition and history of that particular car. Don't walk away, :scooter:
Mark
 

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Terrible seller !, his attitude alone should be enough not to buy the car..., at $60K he better be more polite with whoever contact him..., maybe if he was asking $6K I would put-up with his manners. A Montreal does not deserve to be near this guy.
 

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Having a monte did cross my mind of late... But 59000+ ??

And I thought 911 prices were crazy... Thats more than the 930 I sold last summer

I thought it my be fun to juice one up and modify a little since so many are bone stock.
 

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Mine gets plenty of stares and thumbs ups as I drive around town. Being bright orange can do that, I guess.

The "juice-up" I've done to mine has made it thrilling to drive on a winding road. Several of the hot rod Asian-crap cars can out-drag it, however. Had a $hit box Mitsubishi run off and leave me heading up an on ramp a couple of days ago. I think it may have been one of their EVO models, or something.

I'll be ready to let it go to a new home in a year or so, when all the bugs are worked out. Maybe by then 59k will be the entry level for a good looking, well-sorted car.
 

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The red one (#5234) has two bids now, both apparently at the starting price. Odd.
Looks like the seller bought a new battery too :)
 

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71 Monte: Thanks for your input. This had "smell a rat" written all over it. Lots of rats.

Nice that there are still some Alfa enthusiasts left.
 
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