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Discussion Starter #1
As a long time Alfa Montreal owner (30+ years), and someone who learned to appreciate the car when it was not fashionable to do so and market prices were still in the basement, I am pleased to see the change in response from a number of people here on the Alfabb Forum. But, and there is always a "but", we in the sub-segment, almost reside in isolation relative to the rest of the Alfa people. That may or may not be a "good" thing. What irks me is the lack of acknowledgement from our own club, especially the AROC, and in my case the local chapter of the Alfa Club, of anything to do with Montreals. Does anyone find the same responses in your part of the world, or am I just too sensitive to ignorance and lack of appreciation? If you have a 4 cylinder Alfa, great! (Don't get me wrong, I love them too). Anything else - What???!!! Check out your copies of the local club newsletter or for that matter the monthly AROC Magazine. You'll see what I mean...
 

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Robo,
I am impressed with your 30 years of Montreal ownership!:surprise:
I think the percentages are working against us...just think of the large number of 4 and 6 cylinder Alfa's relative to our scarce 8c's. There may be about 100 Alfa Montreal's on the road in North America v. thousands of the 'more common' 4's and 6's (of which I have a few:)).

It used to be common to drive the 164-S on a club event with a half dozen or more similar cars. The last wine tour, we were the 'exclusive 164-S club'. If you go back through your 30 years worth of AROC Owner's you will see many articles on the Montreal. I have the September 1987 issue with a Montreal as the 'cover car', centerfold (p 12-13) and an interesting article by Shayna (and Ed) Geller (p 14-15) on the kitchen table. Also there was a Montreal on page 21 and two in the classified section.

Mark
 

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What irks me is the lack of acknowledgement from our own club, especially the AROC, and in my case the local chapter of the Alfa Club, of anything to do with Montreals.
You haven't said specifically what your local chapter and AROC-USA didn't do. But your attitude toward those organizations suggests that you wrote numerous articles about the Montreal, submitted them to your local chapter newsletter for publication, and they failed to print them. Perhaps you also forwarded these articles on to "Alfa Owner" and got the same response. No doubt you also volunteered to organize and judge a Montreal class at your club concours and at the National convention, and were again rebuffed.

Am I on the right track here?
 

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You haven't said specifically what your local chapter and AROC-USA didn't do. But from your reaction, I can only guess that you have written numerous articles about the Montreal, submitted them to your local chapter newsletter for publication, and they failed to print them? Then you forwarded these articles on to "Alfa Owner" and got the same response? No doubt you also volunteered to organize and judge a Montreal class at your club concours and at the National convention, and were again rebuffed?

A bit snippy?

As another poster noted above.... There just aren't that many of us.

I can enjoy reading an article about a unique 8C2900 or 3000CM or something, but perhaps only once every other year or so. Personally, I have no continuing interest in the mass-produced Alfas, so articles about run of the mill 105's and 115's triggers my nap switch. I can imagine those in love with such mass-market cars would become quickly annoyed by more than one Montreal article per year, if that.

Just not enough of us.

In writing for aviation magazines (one of my many character flaws), I find that they are all seeking contributions and will pay for them, but there has to be something new about the article to bring in readers, and therefor advertisers. If the article doesn't carry something new and interesting, then it needs to be controversial, again in order to bring in readers and advertisers.

So - my complaint with the AROC publication is that it is irrelevant to my life, and has the literary quality of a high-school newsletter. Including more Montreal stuff might not change the quality and readability.
 

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A bit snippy?
Only a bit? Gosh, I must be losing my touch.

But seriously, I'm not going to defend AROC-US or their publication. Chapters, on the other hand, are purely volunteer organizations, so criticizing your own chapter is essentially pointing at a mirror and criticizing the person in front of you. If you don't like what they are or aren't doing, it's real easy to fix.
 

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To my knowledge, there is no northern Nevada chapter, and I've met only 4 other Alfa owners in the area, 2 of which are difficult to be around. Maybe it's me? Nah.

Still, I prefer Groucho's take on clubs.
 

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It's you...

:frown2::frown2::frown2:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I had a feeling this would stir up some "emotional" comments! After all that is why we get into old cars in the first place. I do not know about looking into the mirror, I usually see myself...???!!! I just wanted to know what other Alfa Montreal owners / drivers experienced around the place. Car clubs are all much the same, I understand that. What I wanted to know is why the lack of any kind of enthusiasm from the Alfa Clubs / Organizations for a car that is very rare, technically way ahead of it's time, was recognized even by the manufacturer to have been something special enough to be part of the Expo 1967 Pavallion of Man exhibit, etc.
I belong to the Alfa Club in Michigan. I joined them originally when we came to the USA from Europe in 1992. Then, as now, the people are not in the least bit friendly, welcoming, or whatever. Maybe it's my perception. Strange when strangers from various car organizations have been at pains to seek us out to participate. Detroit is very much a car town. We have been to Meadowbrook, Eyes on Design, St. Johns, Concorso D'Italia, Italian Happening and a host of others and met some wonderful people, most of whom have been perfect strangers! So, I guess the conclusion is, I should play in the dirt by myself, right?... I did not think that is what "car clubs" were all about.
 

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I have known some of the Detroit AROC chapter members for over 40 years, attended all of their national conventions, and find their chapter very friendly. No offense, maybe we have different perceptions.

....I belong to the Alfa Club in Michigan. I joined them originally when we came to the USA from Europe in 1992. Then, as now, the people are not in the least bit friendly, welcoming, or whatever. Maybe it's my perception. Strange when strangers from various car organizations have been at pains to seek us out to participate. Detroit is very much a car town. We have been to Meadowbrook, Eyes on Design, St. Johns, Concorso D'Italia, Italian Happening and a host of others and met some wonderful people, most of whom have been perfect strangers! So, I guess the conclusion is, I should play in the dirt by myself, right?... I did not think that is what "car clubs" were all about.
 

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Several years ago I formed my "theory of *********".

It states that roughly 12% of any group are *******s. In some groups, I'll be the *******, but in another group I'll be among the 88%.

A corollary to this is my "theory of clubs".

It states that clubs are managed by people whose skills and personality traits would not produce profitable results in a public enterprise where the satisfaction of the customers and employees is critical to success. Thus, they apply to elected office in clubs where they can feel important and powerful without the critical test of success.

Again, Groucho's observation remains valid for a great many of us.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well said Don! Could not have put it any better!!! Anyway, my original motivation remains unanswered. Mainly, on behalf of all us "fringe dwellers" or "early adoptors", depending on where you stand, I would like the Alfa Montreals we own, drive, repair, whatever, to get some recognition, more than they have for many years. It is not even about us. It is about the cars. I was always under the opinion that car clubs existed to encourage and promote the Marque, Model, Make to those who may not have had the opportunity of experiencing the cars. Again, seems like an uphill battle to me... We should just go play in the dirt by ourselves...
 

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Robo,

I agree that if you want something done right, do it yourself. If you produce an article or two that informs and inspires, others will be motivated to follow your example. No one, and I do mean no one, owes me anything in the pursuit of my hobbies. I have no right to complain that my desires are not being met by someone else's volunteer efforts.

I have a right to comment on poor spelling, grammar, and redundancy in composition, but that's not central to this thread.

I worked as the parts manager at an Alfa dealership for a couple of years back in the early 70s. I was also a charter member of the Houston chapter of the AROC. It was long after I left the dealership before I ever heard of the junior Z, 2600 Zagato, Montreal, etc. to my knowledge, none of those cars existed in Houston, and Alfa certainly spent no money talking about cars they didn't plan to import. I knew of the SS only because one of the AROC chapter members had one.

My life was not negatively impacted by the lack of mention of these rare cars in both the local and national publications. I was trying to use a 65 Sprint GT as my daily driver, and find parts for a 59 2000. The publications ignored the 2000 even though it had been officially imported. Ignorance was bliss.

So..... When you publish several brilliant articles about our beloved Montreals, and it drives the going prices over $200k, you can take up a new career defending against the loud complaints of how Montreals are being denied to true enthusiasts by the greedy rich collectors who just hide them away and never drive them.

And so the world goes round and round.....
 

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The DARK Horse! Yes the Alfa Montreal. In true respects it is not a Main Stream Alfa Romeo. No one's ever heard of this Model! It's been underground for decades. Only because the car collector community find the Montreal of collection status. It's popularity is because of them not because of the Alfa Romeo community. They are very well respected, but usually ignored. Don't know why this is, but I as well feel your perception.
 

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AROC

I joined AROC in the late `60s and stayed a member through the `70s. A time when the AROC was a useful source of information to owners with normal interest in theses cars and as well developing them for racing.

I dropped out during my yachting phase, but rejoined in the ~90s when again started building another Alfa to race. Club had changed. Now a social club with really no information available to members not available through other sources.
They were of no use in my Montreal engine build project at all information wise, to keep this on thread.

This month`s diatribe from the President (Cindy Banger) on her dog (that she let out in the street) broke the camel`s back as far as I`m concerned. Same page showed traffic signs with "Changes Ahead" and Transition".

Well my change is to stop tossing $$ at this organization (AROC) and transition into starting a true forum/BB for Alfa performance oriented
individuals to benefit from without the oversight of moderators that are out of touch with the US Constitution..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Let me know when you do. I would happily participate with like minded individuals. The people in the Alfabb forum in general, and the Montreal sub-section have been wonderfully supportive with both information and help on some of my Montreal re-build questions. Thank you all and keep up the good work!
 

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A reply I believe is "on thread"...

The Constitution protects citizens against "prior restraint" of their speech by the government. There are no guarantees of freedom of speech in general. Private companies and citizens may limit speech in any legal way they wish, ie, no violence to stop speech. Moderators are definitely Constitutional. The government, by the way, CAN punish you for saying something, they just aren't allowed to prevent you from saying it.

I prefer a moderated board. I don't agree with some of the positions of some moderators, but so far it's better than the unmoderated troll-wars I've seen elsewhere,
 

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My limited experience with Alfa Owners clubs is they are focused on racing. Montreals don't usually get raced ...
Pete
 

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To me, the Montreal is the ULTIMATE Alfa. Any who look askance at it are simply jealous! I could never afford the maintenance, but have always put these on a plane with Ferrari, Lamborghini, et al. So unique. If I make it to Heaven, I'll fly skyward in a Montreal, for sure.
 

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Don,
Agree with you totally about moderated vs non-moderated boards. Some of the Audi Boards I spend a lot of time on have some "youngsters" that are more into personal attacks than cars. By the way I learned to fly -a long time ago - in a Mooney Executive. Spent more time in a BE36. Haven't flown for years and no longer have pp license.
Dale
 
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