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Discussion Starter #101
It will be more extreme than F430 and faster in track cause the use of compressor gives 60nm of torque and an output of 450-500hp....the weight will be around 1400kg.Gta is a different story cause with the use of multiair you have less consumption(-15%) and +10% of torque but only a max of 440hp compared to 450-500 hp of ''lightweight'' 8c.....In my opinion the proper choice was the new 4,7 v8-450hp which it will be fitted to Quattroporte facelift(2007) and to the upcoming Maserati Spyder(2006) but with 500hp.....but i am not the one who decides...the new F430 in 2009 will have a V10 engine....The best Ferrari of this decade will be the upcoming 575 successor with the codename 600 imola(V12 with about 600hp....It will be faster than Carrera Gt,Slr despite cost a lot less...this is the car that will haunt our dreams)

This year they wont join WTCC cause 159 will be ready in the midle of the season and Alfa Romeo competes only to win....Also they haven't yet decided if they will enter WTCC or DTM in 2007.....they said that they examine the possibility for entering FIA GT with 8c(Mc12 will continue participating) and in the future their dream is to return to Le mans sth that every alfista pray for....but it will take more years of development.
 

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Discussion Starter #104 (Edited)
SPORTIVA EVOLUTA

The lightening of an automotive vehicle structure, whether it is an engine support, or a complete car body, demands a specific planning so that the mechanical characteristics of the material being used can be exploited to the maximum.

It is therefore necessary in the first place to ask oneself what the structural mission is of the member in question, so that the general proportions can be determined. As such, the first large task is to ensure that the rigidity requirements are satisfied. For example, if a car body is being developed, one of the most important tasks is to ensure that the windscreen mounts are strong enough. Structural members also have to take full advantage of resistance, in the same way as crumple zones do.

A simple geometrical shape (e.g slab, solid beam) has to be derived, which can be used to assimilate the member under study, with the aim being to partially determine by means of analytical processes the state of stress or rigidity. At this point simple functions can be derived for different load situations, that depend on the mechanical characteristics of the material (modulus of elasticity, density, yield value, breaking resistance).

Moreover, the same method can be applied not only in terms of investigating the weight, where the prevailing parameter can be the rigidity or the specific strength, but also towards minimal cost (employing parameters like “density per Euro”).

A comparison between the various materials for each case of basic geometrical shape can then be drawn up (e.g. a slab stressed by bending). As a material of reference, TRIP 800 is chosen, which is a high performance Steel.

For collisions members, such as cross sections, Titanium alloy represents a 60% weight advantage over Steel, and a 30% weight advantage over Aluminium. Sportiva Evoluta makes use of this benefit. For high volume car production the use of Titanium is not feasible however, due to the requirement of sustainable costs.

After detailed structural analyses were conducted for vehicle rigidity, it was decided to use a composite carbon fibre material for the main member.To obtain suitable deformation in impacts, the front and rear crumple zones have been made out of aluminium and titanium. The main module of the so called “Split Frame” chassis design is fixed with a set of elastic mounts, ensuring a desirable compromise between comfort and handling.

Two processes have been used in the manufacturing of the prototype chassis, which ensure a strong design capable of resisting the high forces imposed during high speed handling and crashes; “hand lay-up” manual lamination, and “RTM” resin transfer moulding.The main chassis is split into two parts, the bulkhead and backbone, which are connected by two rows of bolts.

Manual lamination was used for the backbone member,using a sandwich type structure to increase the strength whilst remaining light in weight. This solution consists of two carbon-fibre sheets, between which an ultra low-density honeycomb panel is inserted to improve rigidity characteristics.

The carbon-fibre sheets themselves consist of many layers of overlapping pre-impregnated woven carbon fibres. To optimize torsional rigidity, and to absorb forces transferred from the suspension, the main backbone tunnel has closed sections.

There are two disadvantages of the manual lamination process, the main one being the fact that it would only be possible to produce one to two cars a day. Although the initial investment for the process is very low, the high labour hours, and more specifically the need for skilled labour elevate the variable costs.

The complex shape of the bulkhead section triggered the engineers at the CRF to explore the potentials of the RTM process. The RTM process uses a stamp, into which a glass-fibre mould is initially inserted.A resin matrix containing carbon fibres is subsequently pumped in under a controlled pressure and temperature. To increase the structural characteristics of the member, a reinforcing material called Nomex was also used.

An economic analysis of the RTM process was also carried out during the project, and demonstrated that the high convenience of the technology would allow for a production figure of between 5 to 10 cars a day.

Advantages and possibilities:

-Weight control: The complete chassis (excluding the suspension) weighs less than 100 Kg.

-Chassis performace adapted for super-sports car: The torsional and flexible rigidity assures compliance with the Euro-NCAP standard (offset collision at 64 km/h with deformable barrier).

-Technologies adapted for production volumes of upto 5 cars a day: The labour intensive process of manual carbon fibre lamination has been eliminated by a new process called VRTM (Vacuum Resin Moulding Transfers).

-This concept represents the first application of VRTM where woven carbonfibre is used for certain high strengh chassis members."

The chassis makes use of split frame architecture technology, allowing for different 'upper bodies' to be mounted on the basic 'lower chassis', by means of elastic mounts which provide the necessary comfort by filtering road and engine noise.

Extensive testing revealed a substantial reduction in noise, vibration and harshness, with audible road and engine noise decreasing by 4-6 dBA (over a regular chassis). Not only can different body styles be used on the same chassis,but the chassis itself can also be easily adapted for different wheelbases, engines, and traction schemes (2WD, 4WD).
 

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Aghevli said:
They should just rebadge the 8C as a Maserati and sell it as the next generation Maserati Spider.
WHAAAAAAA!!? :eek:

You should just take down your Alfa Romeo Script Sig down after comments like that.. Ive notice some comments youve been making in other threads as well... like the 159 thread.. are you sure youre actually an Alfa fan? :p
 

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HenryKrinkle said:
WHAAAAAAA!!? :eek:

You should just take down your Alfa Romeo Script Sig down after comments like that.. Ive notice some comments youve been making in other threads as well... like the 159 thread.. are you sure youre actually an Alfa fan? :p
I am an Alfa fan and that is why I say the things that I say. To me the 8C will always be an Alfa simply because it was designed with the Alfa namesake and heritage in mind. And at this point I'd rather see it go into production as a rebadged Maserati then nothing at all. A car like the 8C should not die just because it needs to be an "Alfa" to live.

As a matter or fact, I'd even go so far as to say that the 8C is more of an Alfa Romeo that what is being past off as Alfas in many cases today anyway. And for that reason alone, I'd like to see it go into production at any cost...even if it means wearing a trident in its front grill.
 

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Again gentlemen, let me be the voice of reason. Alfa has been away from North America for so long, that people have forgotten, don't know, don't care, who they are. A new generation of buyers has grown up, gotten their licenses, educated themselves, ready for an exciting new ride, etc. They are prime targets!! Alfa must return with a superstar, head turning, in your face statement of style and exotic Italian flare. Enter the 8C. If Alfa wants to make a statement, it must come to America with its "gummar" (sp?). If Alfa brings its middle aged wife to the party, "nice seeing you". :cool:
 

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I beg to differ alfaholico.

The 8C is definately an enthusist's car and built for someone who knows the Alfa's of old.

There is no way that Alfa could sell the 8C to the kind of buyers that you describe because, simply put, the 20 and 30 somethings of America just don't have the kind of money that the pricetag of an 8C would demand. If Alfa dared to do this, the only statement it would be making is that its intentions to stay in North America is not serious at all.

Now, if you suggest that they keep the shell of the car and offer it up with variants of their 2.2 liter and 3.2 liter engines and sell it within the range of the Audi TT and BMW Z4, I will agree with you. But as it stands right now, the youngest buyers of the 8C will have to be rich babyboomers who, to use your words, do bring their middle-aged wife to the parties.
 

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May I respectfully beg to differ? BMW makes a Z8. They don't sell many Z8's, however, it represents a technological statement. Young buyers buy 3 series BMW's with the perception that the same or similar pedigree is in their car. They cannot afford a Z8, but they buy into the marque. If Alfa doesn't return with a relatively broad product line and an in your face statement car, I fear their strategy will be half warmed over. How could you design such a beautiful car and leave it on the drawing room floor? Only if you lack confidence. The 8C will be the bait, and the Brera and 159 will benefit. :D
 

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8C/Z8 are indeed for the 50+...


The BMW E30 M3 did appeal young people. Just like the Giulia GTA.....a normal
car gone mental and challenging the more arrive, exclusive and expensive sports cars
driven by the 50+.

The horsepower race was triggered by the E36 M3, which suddenly jumped from 4-cylinder to 6-cylinder power plant. A BMW M3 has quite a different type of appeal as the M6/Z8.

I would prefer a lightweight, rearwheeldrive Alfa Romeo sedan/GTV which shouts anarchy.
Drive it like a hooligan and wearing a big grin. 8C is a bit too boil-in-the-bag in comparison.

Cars like the VW GTI, Saab 900 turbo, Alfa Romeo 1900, Audi UrQuattro are loved because
they have been the first transforming normal road cars in roadburners. Alfa Romeo made
the first sports sedan and in my opinion Alfa Romeo is a car manufacturer since the 60s
of mass produced cars for the young and the young at heart not exclusive sports cars. The appeal of a GTI for young people is not its performance but GTI did became a cult.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
HenryKrinkle said:
WHAAAAAAA!!? :eek:

You should just take down your Alfa Romeo Script Sig down after comments like that.. Ive notice some comments youve been making in other threads as well... like the 159 thread.. are you sure youre actually an Alfa fan? :p
Alfisti is the one who drive only something that brings the fabulous giant green watersnake on it,that does not interest about the absolute horsepower & the nominal records acceleration 0-100 but the performance in a route with many turns,knows that he drives a car of company with the bigger history to the automotive area and cares about the absolute aesthetics....Enzo ferrari said that a car in order to gain wins should be beautiful, a beautiful car inspires you differently in the driving as a beautiful woman in sex....beyond this Alfa's never had extreme setup but always combined comfort and sportiness in order to give you the ultimate feeling in driving but also offer comfort in daily use or in a journey...Alfa romeo is a modern fable... no other company confuse contradictory significances with the way that alfa romeo does..the paganism legendary giant watersnake of the lombard(symbol of the ancient lombard) and wider German mythology in combination with the christian cross of first crusade that began from Milan,alfa romeo is sporting but also elegant,she is set up for spor control in a street with turns but also she is comfortable in a travel,it is the company that constitutes the invention of big sportsedan like 1900 (1950)and the intermediate Giulietta (1955) that constructed the first spor compact alfasud (1972),the company that invented the first supercar,cars as current 575M and 612 constitutes direct descendants of 8c2900( decade 30),she is the 1st company that gained the first organised championship grand prix, is the company that gained the first championship Formula 1, is the company that possesses the bigger record of possessed victories in a big organisation with 7 possessed victories in the Mille Miglia,follows the Ferrari with 6 possessed in Formula 1....She is always the company it has 3/4 of her own cars in the 10 more expensively in the auctions of classic cars, she is the company that from alone is a subject for concours of elegance,Alfa Romeo is a live fable.
 

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Alfaholico-

First off, I'm not sure that many 3-series owners are even aware of the Z8. My brother's girlfriend drives a 3-series that her father bought her. I doubt she has any idea that BMW even makes another two-seater convertible beyond the Z4. I get that idea with a lot of BMW drivers these days.

Sure, if Alfa wants to show off prestige, it would be nice to have an 8C in the showroom but I think that modern buyers are more enticed by the cars that they buy and less so with sharing any type of pedigree with the brand. Alfa's sales record is a perfect example of how the pedigree won't help a car sell if the final product is subpar. 8C and Z8 aside, if Alfa doesn't build the car that I want then I'm not buying, regardless of what else they make.
 

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HenryKrinkle said:
WHAAAAAAA!!? :eek:

You should just take down your Alfa Romeo Script Sig down after comments like that.. Ive notice some comments youve been making in other threads as well... like the 159 thread.. are you sure youre actually an Alfa fan? :p
I agree with you, here comes an Alfa that whole world lusts after, and we should rebadge it for a Maserati?
 

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HenryKrinkle said:
WHAAAAAAA!!? :eek:

You should just take down your Alfa Romeo Script Sig down after comments like that.. Ive notice some comments youve been making in other threads as well... like the 159 thread.. are you sure youre actually an Alfa fan? :p
I agree with you, here comes an Alfa that whole world lusts after, and we should rebadge it for a Maserati?

Some people here just come to create negative vibes.
 

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Please Aghevli, a more lucid argument. Your brothers' girlfriend is not the person you and I are hypothetically talking about here. We're talking about "car people" (re- guys). And someone who is given a car and doesn't pay for it is also not the person we are talking about. We're talking about "gearheads" here. Why not build the 8 C as a statement of what Alfa is and can be? I just can't see the reason not to. A broad product line (esp an SUV for North America), an in your face statement car, a great warranty and great dealer service. This is what is needed to succeed. It ain't rocket science. ;)
 

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The 8C was introduced almost two years ago....If Alfa Romeo could attract sufficient buyers
they would have put the 8C in production. The 8C doesn't make any sense at all at the moment. Why not fit the transverse mounted Cadillac Northstar V8 and create a Brera GTA???

I do not believe the Maserati V8 will be mounted in the Brera because they would have
to develop or buy a very short gearbox. It can be done but it wouldn't make any business
sense because the Caddie engine can be used for far less money because the GM engines are
very inexpensive due to GM's very efficient engine high volume manufacturing.

Unless Maserati will drop out of their league and also use the Premium platform and GM V6
engines etc. Considering Jaguar mishap with the X-type I wouldn't want to follow that route.


I have never understanded why Jaguar, Maserati, Audi etc cannot cooperate instead of
bringing in a Mondeo.
 

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alfaholico said:
Please Aghevli, a more lucid argument. Your brothers' girlfriend is not the person you and I are hypothetically talking about here. We're talking about "car people" (re- guys). And someone who is given a car and doesn't pay for it is also not the person we are talking about. We're talking about "gearheads" here. Why not build the 8 C as a statement of what Alfa is and can be? I just can't see the reason not to. A broad product line (esp an SUV for North America), an in your face statement car, a great warranty and great dealer service. This is what is needed to succeed. It ain't rocket science. ;)
The success of BMW does not lie in "gearheads." I live in Los Angeles, a place where more people buy into the luxury car mystique more than anywhere in the world. Most of the people who drive BMWs care less about heritage and more about what looks good to be in while you drive to the gym. If we are talking about sales performance, people like this count more than you think. In short, Most BMW drivers here are not gearheads. BMW is successful. You do the math.

But back to the 8C...

My passion for Alfa Romeos tells me that the 8C is a car that NEEDS to be built. Unfortunately, I know that in terms of marketing sense, there is no point for Fiat to actually build it. It's not logical. Fiat is a company of buisness men first and there is no point building a car that will directly compete with the Maserati Spider when Fiat itself already takes in the profits for that car. It's that simple.
 
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