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The rear axlehousing on my car 01076 built late 1952 i would presume as it was delivered in Sweden spring 1953.
is stamped 320099 C.

Pescara do you also have a C about 1 cm after the number on your axlehousing ?
 

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325390 ti c-g

Hi John

Alfa Romeo 1900c 01602

Production date: 1953 May 26.
Delivery date: 1953 December 28.
Market destination: Palmanova (Italy)
Exterior color: Blue cobalto (later repainted red)
Carrozzeria - Coupe 2/3 posti Touring.
Touring body no. 3960

The engine block is wrong 1306* 04256* it is still the old block without the 4 water covers.
You can see that the engine has the SS V-belt Puly`s. Note the special water temperature counter.
The cylinderhead has the number 6439 (6) The carburettor is missing. The camshafts are marked.
At the transmission I have not been able to detect anything special. The car is not badly rusted.
Rear axle: 325390 TI C-G
I mean it could TI and Corto Gara are called?
I will still check the ratio later...
 

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Hi Pescara
Yes, maybe it's a serial number of the axle.
However, I had many 1900 models but from the year 1954 - 57 and they had no such numbers. Was probably not so accurate, even the touring number on the steering wheel jacket tube on my car not all vehicles have had.
 

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Thank you!

Thank you Rolf!

The Touring body number fits in perfectly among other cars in this chassis number range and that is comforting.
The "prodotta" date (for the chassis platform) and the delivery date reflect the time that the car took to be bodied and otherwise completed as a car and that all fits our hopes and expectations.

The location of delivery ("Palmanova") gives us considerable hope that we might find the early Italian history with only a bit of effort? Alfa Romeo is not allowed to share the name of the purchaser but we might be able to find this data ourselves. A car sold and registered in Palmanova would carry an Udine plate number. Relatively few plates were issued per day in Udine compared to Milano, Roma, Torino and other locales where we might expect to research hundreds of plate numbers in order to find the car. In this instance, a source (not always reliable but probably "close" to being accurate in this instance?) tells us that the plate number UD26587 was issued 31 December 1953. Although there can be exceptions to any expectation, we can think that your car was probably first registered with a plate number very close to that number, i.e. within a few days of 28 December 1953 … unless it went to a dealer.

There are some fees to do this sort of research and also the request generally needs to be dropped off (in certain offices in Italy), a small time period (a week or so) waited and then the results picked up. I can ask a friend to do this work but he must be paid something. The more plates searched at one time (perhaps ten or twenty?), the less time it will take to PROBABLY get lucky but you may wind up paying for research that is not necessary? If not in a hurry, I would begin perhaps with "UD26580" to see what day that plate was issued and then choose another plate or group of plates to research based on that specific knowledge.

Some studies will probably reveal that your rear axle housing was made to be used in either a 1900TI or a 1900C and we may find they are all (or many?) marked with a "G" suffix, the meaning of which is yet to be determined. Although it would be kind of exciting to learn that it stands for "Gara", I think it best to consider that possibility as unlikely so as to avoid possible disappointment?

It is already quite interesting to find that there was a numbering system for the rear axle housing that carries through in concept from very early Alfa Romeo cars, beginning with the RL (if not earlier) into the early 1900 examples.

Best of luck! John
 

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We have gotten "lucky" quite quickly in our research efforts and identified the original engine number and the earliest owners of AR1900C*01602*. I will leave it to the current owner to share what he wishes to share about his car at this time.

This gives me hope that some other owners may become inspired to fund the studies of their own cars as I cannot really afford to study them all on my own nickel(s). With the considerable assistance of Corrado Bellabarba and some important early contributions from Lorenzo Boscarelli, an amazing number of AR1900C cars are described quite well. Some of them can be described better with additional studies. Not all of them exist today, but there are quite a few!
 

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I think that the car #436 (di Agostino & Ercole) during MM 1952 is VIN 10054 and not 01054.
I have the "estratto" of this car ; the date of "certificato d'origine" is 2 april 1952 ; registration MI 189171 from 3 april 1952 ; engine 00048.
A picture of this car is on the Revs site during Coppa Intereuropa 1952, this is not a corto gara.

Pévé
 

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Hello TISUP,

Thank you for sharing!

I have not done the research myself, but was given information during 1987(?) and then 2013 that described 01054 and then 10054. Neither description is "complete" in any way. Unfortunately, each of those descriptions carries the engine "00048" so I expect there is an error in at least some details shared ... or I read something wrong and made some data entry mistake(s) myself? My notes show that the car with MI189171 on the 1952 Coppa Inter-Europa (September) was driven by Giovanni Maria Cornaggia Medici, a long-time customer and friend of Alfa Romeo. 10054 was seemingly declared "destroyed" (which does not always mean what the word seems to mean) where 01054 continued to exist into the 1970's or so? Again, I've not studied either car myself.
 

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Hello John,
I don't know if 10054 was "destroyed" want I haven't the complete "estratto".
But here are more informations after di Agostino

20 april 1953 : sold to S.p.A. Kraftsack with new registration TS17145

29 january1954 : sold to Attilio Zampolli with new registration MI235260

1 june 1955 : sold to Alfonso Dolci di Dario, same registration

5 october 1955 : sold to Aimetta Colzada, same registration

11 february 1956 : sold to Zoé Tosi with new registration in Roma.

I have no more informations.

Pévé
 

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Looking again at the Mille Miglia of 1952, it is important to recognize that there was no "GT 2000" category. All the 2 liter cars were lumped into a single "Sport 2000" category. This allowed more freedom for variations in preparation from any sort of "standard" or "production" related category.

Recent research has revealed a strong connection to "Ivanhoe" (Vincenzo Avorio) and his use of chassis 01047 to help him win the 1953 Italian championship in the 2000cc GT category. He did not officially own the car. He may have used other cars as well? In fact, we know that he drove in some other cars that year, but not all of his racing was in the 2000GT category. More to follow.
 

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Hi John & all,

Cornaggia , see your post # 48

I have a 9/1952 note from Alfa regarding problems on a 1900 Marelli distributor S 64 A della vettura MI 197186 Cornaggia - Stella Alpina (no chassis #). Was that his personal car or a car from Alfa, that I don't know.
The final ranking of the 1952 Stella Alpina that I found on the Net shows only the first 10 cars and there is only a 'Cornacchia' in a Ferrari. Was there also a Cornaggia between the participans of that race?
Gian Maria Cornaggio did take part in Stella Alpina ed.1950 with a 6C 2500 SS, so maybe he had good connections with Alfa Romeo indeed .

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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Thank you Thierry!

The plate MI197186 was assigned to chassis AR1900TI*02974. I've not done any specific research myself and I've not studied the car, so I do not have additional details aside from the observation that the car was seemingly in private hands the following year when it ran the Mille Miglia. I saw a photo more than 30 years ago and recorded the plate number but have not researched it myself. There is lots (LOTS!) of similar research to do!

The Italian magazine "Interauto" reported final results of the "VI Stella Alpina" (Trento, 28 to 31 August 1952) by categories and not in an overall sense. The AR1900 berlina cars (mostly or exclusively TI?) raced in the "Nazionale da Turismo di serie" (over 1500cc) category and shows Croce (3rd), Becucci (6th), Della Beffa (9th) and Cornaggia (10th) in Alfa Romeo cars, probably all AR1900TI. The other class finishers were Lancia in the other positions up to 11th in the same category. The overall winner was Ovidio Capelli (Fiat 8V-000002 Zagato), also winning the GT2000 category. Fausto Rodenghi (Lancia B20, 3 carbs, prepared by Bignami) was second overall and also 2nd/ GT2000. They were only 7 seconds apart after four days (and four segments) of racing and others were very much in the mix. Rodenghi was 5th in the GT2000 category while Capelli was first in category on the first day and Capelli was 5th on the second day while Rodenghi was first.

Rodenghi may have used his same Lancia that he used the year before? If so, I have enough information to identify it but have not yet chased down that detail. For Croce, I know one car he raced previously but I do not know which car he used on the Stella Alpina. For Becucci, I have no guess at all. For Alberto Della Beffa, we know that he raced in at least two different specific berlina cars (each probably owned by Alfa Romeo?) during 1952 and 1953. Maybe they were essentially "TI" even if they may not have been labeled "TI" in the chassis stampings? There is no way to know without additional studies. Each of these could be studied with the time, will and monies to do so. There is no guarantee that Della Beffa's car on the Stella Alpina was the same as the car he raced elsewhere.
 

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Thank you John,

"...will and monies to do so..." I understand that completely.

99,9% of the notes is about the failure of the electric parts, unfortunately not about the history of the cars.
The picture below shows what I found on the MI197186 car, as you can see, the car had double carbs.
That could make it an Alfa Romeo 1900TI indeed.


1665632


Some other ellectrical damage reports mention the term 'vetture 1900DC ' > 'doppio carburatori'.
Maybe that was a common term ' at Alfa's ' in 1952 for those cars or at least an internal communication term from that person in the S.E.S to his entourage and superiors, as it is in his notes , ... it could have been his personal interpretation too of course.

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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Hi John,

I noticed 2 other 1900 car license plate numbers, Indicated by that internal designation '1900DC'.

About that failure in the italian written document (in post # 54):
Yes, it was the support of that air membrane chamber that failed again after that Marelli would have changed yet the material of the support.

Marelli was already informed before about two other failures: excessive play on the centrifugal shaft of that car's distributor and about the grease nipple that would have tendency to come loose from the distributor body.


Does a '1900CG - Di Stefano' ring any bells to you ? Unfortunately I have no # at all.


Rgds,

Thierry
 

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Hi 2000 touring sp and all,

Thanks, I found the ' vettura CG Di Stefano ' mentioned in a 9/1952 note about failures on the starter housing. His starter broke after 28104 km. Also after 11 thousand and 16 thousand kilometers on two other cars. ( 1900DC cars)
Those failures would have occured only on the starters of the race prepared engines 1900 CG and 1900 DC.
Apparently Alfa tried out more rigid rubber motor mounts for those cars ( sulle vetture adattate per gare) and they thought that this caused the failing starter mounting flanges.

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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I can offer the thought that Agostino Di Stefano was likely in AR1900C*10054* (earlier numbering pattern, prior to what became the norm for Alfa Romeo at about this time) on the MM of 1952. This is far from certain as the numbering system from Alfa Romeo was in flux. If you'd like other thoughts, I must have more specific information from you as I am not willing to spend ten to twenty hours (or more?) describing what might have been possible, based on your transparent "tease" that shares no specifics aside from a name.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Start nummer 441 chassis *01027 med Tadini / Bonini ved GdS nummer 345

Start nummer 436 chassis *01054? med Agostino di Stefano/ Ercole DNF

Start mummer 516 chassis???? Carlo Pesci / Garaglia DNF Privat?????

Start nummer 501 chassis ’*01029 med Deatwayler /Lingeri DNF
 
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