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Went to the local dealer today to see the blue Giulia they had on display for the day. The Alfa rep said it was a pre-production model Quadrifolio, but it lacked power seats BUT had a manual trans. FWIW the rep said there would be manuals in the US. Apparently he didn't get the memo from FCA.
 

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Went to the local dealer today to see the blue Giulia they had on display for the day. The Alfa rep said it was a pre-production model Quadrifolio, but it lacked power seats BUT had a manual trans. FWIW the rep said there would be manuals in the US. Apparently he didn't get the memo from FCA.
that was the blue mule that started out in Manhattan...then came up to my dealer in Westchester....
power seats are an option (as per the UK site)..my rep was in the dark about this latest news as well...
Spoke with him today and said if the cars he is allocated are indeed ZF 8 speed paddle shift I would need to drive one before I commit to buying...
If I like the way it drives/shifts, then I am fine with it, if not....not sure what I will buy..
 

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Now hang on there a minute. To me an automatic is a transmission that contains a torque convertor. And I do not like the driving feel of a torque convertor. However a transmission with one or more clutches (dry or wet) that is activated by paddles, is a different deal. I call those a manumatic and I think that would be okay, although I've never driven one.

So this 8 speed ZF, does it contain a torque convertor?

Bye for now
No an automatic is a transmission that decides when to shift, so in many cases paddle shifts are still automatics because the driver says "down shift" but the computer then decides whether to actually do that or not.

In fact in all paddle shift cases there is a computer between the driver and gearbox ... minor point I guess as in most cases there is a computer between the accelerator pedal and engine too :(
Pete
 

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Now hang on there a minute. To me an automatic is a transmission that contains a torque convertor. And I do not like the driving feel of a torque convertor. However a transmission with one or more clutches (dry or wet) that is activated by paddles, is a different deal. I call those a manumatic and I think that would be okay, although I've never driven one.

So this 8 speed ZF, does it contain a torque convertor?
Yes, it's a regular torque converter / planetary gearset automatic.
 

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If you have driven them both, you will never take the shifter. Forget the manual Gearbox of this car.
In Europe, you guys are spoiled for manual options. In the U.S., the Giulia was going to be a big deal because it was one of the very few sport sedans to offer a manual. We are pretty much left with BMW and Cadillac at this point.

Besides, I will take a poor manual over the best auto in the world unless I'm racing.
 

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I have a DD 2016 Acura ILX with an 8speed dual clutch trans with torque converter. I hardly ever use the paddles, but when I do it will run right up to the redline in each gear. The shifts are crisp and generally very smooth. I've been told that's because the TC smooths out the gear change. I've also driven a Hyundai Veloster DCT without the TC and it's nowhere near as refined in its operation.
 

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I don't think that there is an argument as to which transmission is better, it's more that there should be a choice and there is an absolute desire for manuals in this segment for this car. But while I am extremely disappointed and have crossed the Giulia QV from the top of my list to replace my Audi S5, what is truly appalling is Alfa Romeo's handling of this since the beginning.

` Announcing that the US version of the Giulia QV over a year ago would be manual only was odd to begin with. And even as a manual transmission lunatic such as myself thought this was a strange choice.
- Teasing us for a year all over social media yet no release date in sight
- Almost acting as if they never touted the manual in how they handled the press event last week. Autoblog reported on their first drive and while they mentioned that they were driving an auto QV, never stated that there was a change in philosophy at Alfa and even had the manual as being an available choice in their 'stat sheet'. Other blogs reported that it would be auto only and a few realized that this was a drastic change and THEN pressed the Alfa rep who stated that 'no one would buy the manual...maybe one percent'.
- As of Friday, dealers did not know....at least my local dealer did not when I pressed them. They still insisted that it would be a manual only with an automatic maybe down the line.
- Website had minor changes. The photos no longer showed any transmissions but the pdf's of the technical specification and the standard/optional equipment document both had the manual as the only transmission
- Also as of friday, Alfa US customer service on the phone insisted that it would still be manual. Via email they stated that the Giulia and Giulia Ti would have a turbo 4 with an auto. I pointed out that I was asking about the QV. They replied that the QV would also have the same drivetrain. I pointed out that the QV does not have the same engine as the other models where I finally got an email apologizing for the confusion and confirmation that the QV would be auto only.
- This week's MotorWeek had a report on the Miami international auto show and stated that the Giulia QV was the 'star of the show' and the model they showed clearly had the manual. The Miami auto show started on 9/10.
- Clearly this was a last minute decision that Alfa has tried to sweep under the rug. The reasons for most manufacturers not to bring over a manual is usually the cost of development and federalization. In this case, the manual has been developed and clearly this late in the game it has been federalized so why not bring both? Why not avert this PR disaster? Even if the take rate is only 1% (and it will most likely be 10% at least), they then would have a reason down the line to discontinue it and us manual lunatics would not have a leg to stand on.
- Speaking of the 1% that would choose a manual, my S5 has a manual and on Saturday I pulled up next to a BMW M4 and asked the driver how he liked it as I am now being forced to consider it. He said he loved it and it is a manual. Hmm...two one percenters right next to each other. That's a one in a ten-thousand occurence. Yesterday I saw a different M4 in a parking lot, took a look at it and lo and behold it was a manual as well. Well now....using that product planner's 1% statistic, the odds of me seeing three cars in a row in this segment that are manuals now went up to one in a million. Or maybe that statistic is flawed.....ya think?
- Why is it in all those classic car restoration shows and auctions the manual transmission version is always more desirable. Maybe there is a value in it in the long run?

I am not trying to troll anyone who prefers an automatic. I am not naive and I fully realize that I am in the minority and I would agree that just about any non-CVT modern auto is more efficient and faster than a manual. But that doesn't matter to the three pedal fanatic. Alfa's fortunes in the US actually would be MUCH better served by offering BOTH transmissions and not one or the other.

The Giulia is my dream car....my chance to finally own a new Alfa and something that I have been waiting for the last 21 years. But I won't get it....not unless there is a miraculous reversal and Alfa does bring over the manual. My quest for my dream car has turned into a nightmare
 

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I don't think that there is an argument as to which transmission is better, it's more that there should be a choice and there is an absolute desire for manuals in this segment for this car. But while I am extremely disappointed and have crossed the Giulia QV from the top of my list to replace my Audi S5, what is truly appalling is Alfa Romeo's handling of this since the beginning.

` Announcing that the US version of the Giulia QV over a year ago would be manual only was odd to begin with. And even as a manual transmission lunatic such as myself thought this was a strange choice.
- Teasing us for a year all over social media yet no release date in sight
- Almost acting as if they never touted the manual in how they handled the press event last week. Autoblog reported on their first drive and while they mentioned that they were driving an auto QV, never stated that there was a change in philosophy at Alfa and even had the manual as being an available choice in their 'stat sheet'. Other blogs reported that it would be auto only and a few realized that this was a drastic change and THEN pressed the Alfa rep who stated that 'no one would buy the manual...maybe one percent'.
- As of Friday, dealers did not know....at least my local dealer did not when I pressed them. They still insisted that it would be a manual only with an automatic maybe down the line.
- Website had minor changes. The photos no longer showed any transmissions but the pdf's of the technical specification and the standard/optional equipment document both had the manual as the only transmission
- Also as of friday, Alfa US customer service on the phone insisted that it would still be manual. Via email they stated that the Giulia and Giulia Ti would have a turbo 4 with an auto. I pointed out that I was asking about the QV. They replied that the QV would also have the same drivetrain. I pointed out that the QV does not have the same engine as the other models where I finally got an email apologizing for the confusion and confirmation that the QV would be auto only.
- This week's MotorWeek had a report on the Miami international auto show and stated that the Giulia QV was the 'star of the show' and the model they showed clearly had the manual. The Miami auto show started on 9/10.
- Clearly this was a last minute decision that Alfa has tried to sweep under the rug. The reasons for most manufacturers not to bring over a manual is usually the cost of development and federalization. In this case, the manual has been developed and clearly this late in the game it has been federalized so why not bring both? Why not avert this PR disaster? Even if the take rate is only 1% (and it will most likely be 10% at least), they then would have a reason down the line to discontinue it and us manual lunatics would not have a leg to stand on.
- Speaking of the 1% that would choose a manual, my S5 has a manual and on Saturday I pulled up next to a BMW M4 and asked the driver how he liked it as I am now being forced to consider it. He said he loved it and it is a manual. Hmm...two one percenters right next to each other. That's a one in a ten-thousand occurence. Yesterday I saw a different M4 in a parking lot, took a look at it and lo and behold it was a manual as well. Well now....using that product planner's 1% statistic, the odds of me seeing three cars in a row in this segment that are manuals now went up to one in a million. Or maybe that statistic is flawed.....ya think?
- Why is it in all those classic car restoration shows and auctions the manual transmission version is always more desirable. Maybe there is a value in it in the long run?

I am not trying to troll anyone who prefers an automatic. I am not naive and I fully realize that I am in the minority and I would agree that just about any non-CVT modern auto is more efficient and faster than a manual. But that doesn't matter to the three pedal fanatic. Alfa's fortunes in the US actually would be MUCH better served by offering BOTH transmissions and not one or the other.

The Giulia is my dream car....my chance to finally own a new Alfa and something that I have been waiting for the last 21 years. But I won't get it....not unless there is a miraculous reversal and Alfa does bring over the manual. My quest for my dream car has turned into a nightmare
Agree with you 100%. Lack of a manual is also the reason I never considered the 4C. I want what I want and there are many others who feel the same way. Too bad FCA is making a product I like, but withholding it and forcing me to look at BMW and Audi, etc.

It also looks like the plan after all this waiting for the QV, is to promote and market just the base model, in a hope of stealing some of the A4 or base 3 series' market share. This transforms the Giulia into just another pedestrian alternative "sporty" sedan. So much for the M3 killer we all lusted after.
 

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I don't think they fully dismissed the idea of having an Manual option for the United States, as many of the executives have said, "the automatics are being shipped as of right now"
 

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I don't think they fully dismissed the idea of having an Manual option for the United States, as many of the executives have said, "the automatics are being shipped as of right now"
Unfortunately it seems clear that they did dismiss the idea. See this quote from the e-mail from Reid Bigland, Alfa's Head of US Sales (posted by James Locopo in a recent thread): "In the meantime, the plan right now is for Automatic only in the US, if something should change I will let you know."

Automatics only. You wont be able to special order a manual.
 

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I don't think they fully dismissed the idea of having an Manual option for the United States, as many of the executives have said, "the automatics are being shipped as of right now"
From every review I've seen online or read the manual is not up to par with BMW or MB. This is probably the reason why they won't release it state side. No sense getting bad reviews when your 8 speed auto is spot on. If I spent 80K on one and it had a six speed that wasn't as good as a MX5 I would be pissed.

Oh and on that note, I really don't see me spending more than 50 to 60K on any car the rest of my life. Now the base model 2.0 Turbo with a six speed I would be all over. 280/300 HP is all I need anymore.
 

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I don't understand how anybody can make a bad manual nowadays. My 156v6 has a beautiful gear change that is an absolute joy to use ...

We know how to make a gearbox, just repeat for the next one.
Pete
 

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No an automatic is a transmission that decides when to shift, so in many cases paddle shifts are still automatics because the driver says "down shift" but the computer then decides whether to actually do that or not.

In fact in all paddle shift cases there is a computer between the driver and gearbox ... minor point I guess as in most cases there is a computer between the accelerator pedal and engine too :(
Pete
This thread is creeping me out!
Gov.Org. and the marketing wimps taking the CHOICE away from us.
I resigned myself to NEVER owning a NEW car a long time ago, seems that is not going to change with nothing of interest even offered.
 

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This choice of Alfa (FCA, really) is perplexing. The car already exists, why not offer it as a special order for customers who truly want it? Years ago when I bought a new 3 series, there were no manual transmissions in stock in the NYC area. If you wanted stick, you ordered it and waited about 10 weeks. The same is true today...and a small, but consistent number of 3 series buyers get a manual. And the same is true for any car in this segment that offers it.

They can even designate certain dealerships to have one in stock to test drive and maybe even sell. (Like Ford used to only allow some dealerships to sell SVT cars). If nothing else, the manual gives some bona fides to it being a real sports sedan.
 

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This choice of Alfa (FCA, really) is perplexing. The car already exists, why not offer it as a special order for customers who truly want it? Years ago when I bought a new 3 series, there were no manual transmissions in stock in the NYC area. If you wanted stick, you ordered it and waited about 10 weeks. The same is true today...and a small, but consistent number of 3 series buyers get a manual. And the same is true for any car in this segment that offers it.

They can even designate certain dealerships to have one in stock to test drive and maybe even sell. (Like Ford used to only allow some dealerships to sell SVT cars). If nothing else, the manual gives some bona fides to it being a real sports sedan.
This is exactly one of the mind boggling questions for this whole debacle. If Alfa US had originally stated a year ago that it would be automatic only, it would have been very disappointing but somewhat understandable. To go through making the bold announcement of it being a manual only and touting that for a year and going through the process of federalizing it and training the dealers, only to reverse the decision at the last minute and not even make the manual as an option is mind blowingly bizarre.

As you pointed out, many dealers do not carry manuals in stock (also a HUGE reason why manual sales are down...it's a self fulfilling prophecy) however, you can order them from the factory. I have done so with the last two Audi's I have bought and quite frankly, I prefer doing it this way. I can get EXACTLY the colors and options that I want and there is some fun in the anticipation of it as well. As it stands now since the Giulia QV is no longer in play, I am leaning towards a new M4 or maybe a Cayman even and in either case, I would have it ordered from the factory (with a manual).
 

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Part of me wonders if they are actually serious about succeeding. It's not just the about face on the manual trans, but the delays on the other models; total lack of advertising; no attempt to gain brand recognition; dealers that are left holding the bag (again).

I love Alfa - I learned to drive on an Alfa 33 5door in Italy in the early 90's. But there's also a part of me that wonders if maybe this is the swan song. They've had 20 years of more or less mediocre products (which can be blamed on Fiat). The 4C and now the Giulia are the last attempt to show the world what they can do...but if they don't make money (read: get people excited and sell cars! Good cars!) , maybe it's better to just put the company out of its misery rather than potentially become what Lancia has now become.
 

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PDK Porsche

911 Porsche Carrera still makes 7 speed manual as a $0 option vs PDK 7 speed is $3200 more and you can ad the Chrono package which is $2440 for a different engine management mapping (Engine goes crazy).

The news from Porsche is 9 out of 10 ordered Carrera cars are PDK vs manual.

I prefer paddle shifting and at the same time it can be used as automatic when stuck in traffic.
 

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This choice of Alfa (FCA, really) is perplexing. The car already exists, why not offer it as a special order for customers who truly want it?
Exactly. You assume they have a bunch of NA-model manual cars built and in the pipeline, since they were about to arrive and this is a last minute decision.

Are those NA cars identical to the Euro-market car so they'll just sell them all there?
 
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