Alfa 6C2500 chassis 915003
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
So, Why do you think your car is 915003?
I have some information collected about this chassis number from some time ago, but there are questions. If you are willing to share details about your car, I will try to begin some additional studies based on data already recorded about claims that have been made in the past. I cannot guarantee results, but I do have some data reported in the past that can be studied at some expense. Not a lot of expense to begin a study, but I have to ask why it is that you believe your car carries the identity of 915003? What is the engine number? What is the frame number? What is the ownership history? What is the gearbox number? What is the number (or the numbers) of the front suspension components? The rear gear carrier housing? The steering box? Carburetors? Is there a body trim number? I have lots of questions, but let us begin with a few answers?
Best of luck!
John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
I have some information collected about this chassis number from some time ago, but there are questions. If you are willing to share details about your car, I will try to begin some additional studies based on data already recorded about claims that have been made in the past. I cannot guarantee results, but I do have some data reported in the past that can be studied at some expense. Not a lot of expense to begin a study, but I have to ask why it is that you believe your car carries the identity of 915003? What is the engine number? What is the frame number? What is the ownership history? What is the gearbox number? What is the number (or the numbers) of the front suspension components? The rear gear carrier housing? The steering box? Carburetors? Is there a body trim number? I have lots of questions, but let us begin with a few answers?
Best of luck!
John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
Hi John,
Nice to hear from you again. We have been in touch a long time ago regarding some information I was looking for a Fiat 1100S I planned to buy.
To reply to you first question, I think I have 915003 as all the documents coming with the car (libretto, ACI certification, FIVA passport) state this car as 915003.
The reason I ask some help about the car is there is some point which need some light.
In Anselmi book, the car is described as known and wears a body by Boneschi. All my documents state the car as Touring.
I will be happy to reply to your question regarding the numbers. At this stage the only number I would be able to provide you tomorrow is the engine number.
Due to COVID 19, my mechanic is not able to check everything. Soon we will rebuild the engine and would have access to all major component.
I will contact you very soon.
Regards
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
Thank you. As I indicated, there are questions. You have questions and I have questions. Some of our questions are the same. Did you buy the 1100S? Anything to share about it? I am in the midst of a great many studies and am in no hurry whatsoever. Best of luck!
Hi John,
I didn't purchased the Fiat as after some research the body was a full replica. It started life as a "Gobbone" and was some time in the end of a collector in Argentina. Sadly he died before the restoration started and the car had been sold by his father to Henri Lalanne who commissioned a "Stanguelini barchetta" replica by Pur Sang (famous with there Bugatti replica).
It arrived in France and the owner was sure about the fact his car was a real Stanguelini. He finally succeed to sell the car somewhere in Europe.
I need to check my note to give you the chassis number.
Regarding the Alfa, I think the engine number start with 923xxx. But need to check before confirmation.
I have also another car for which I'm looking for some information. It is a 1912 Lancia Epsilon chassis 906.
Any idea?
Regards.
Greg
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
I have had no personal interaction with any Lancia Epsilon. I have a few notes collected about a car numbered 906 (auctioned 1988) and another numbered 912 that was auctioned late 2014. There will be auction catalog descriptions at a minimum. Not that I trust auction catalog descriptions to describe all cars correctly!
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
Hello tipo160,
Your engine number "makes sense" for a car with chassis 915003. We do not have a lot of truly meaningful comparative data from the earliest 6C2500 examples, so "makes sense" (at this time) might not be truly comforting in the future?
I have finally dug carefully through some files and found some material that may help you continue your study of 915003. I've made some scans of various materials, some of which are likely copyrighted. I use them as study tools but will not share them here. In the end, if you wish to learn who made the body, I think you will want to remove a number of trim items and search for a body number. I do not know of a numbering system for Boneschi, but it is likely they had one. We know that Touring had a numbering system and the numbers are generally not difficult to find in a body that is mostly original … and which has many of its original trim parts. Sometimes you will find only the last two digits of a four digit number. The number may be stamped, scratched, painted or crayoned/penciled on some parts?
I am attaching an image I found that I'd copied during the late 1980's (perhaps early 1990's?) in a museum in Italy that is now called something different but which is still a very fine museum with an extensive library. Cross-referencing the image from1939 (most likely) and that time period to a Boneschi ledger reference in the "Boneschi" book of 1989 by Sergio Puttini, I see an intriguing possibility. On 28 December 1938, an unidentified Alfa Romeo "6C2500" arrived at Boneschi and a "cabriolet 4 posti" is listed with the client being "Alfa Romeo". Of course, it might be that the car was a 6C2300B instead, but I am wondering ...
You have seen the image of a similar body shown at Coachbhuild.com? I only just saw it a couple of days ago.
![Land vehicle Car Vehicle Classic Classic car]()
Semmartin, please remember that Tito Anselmi's published listing is derived only in part from Alfa Romeo records. The Registro 6C2500 notes are based in large part on Tito's listings and then other information has been added as it is found. Alfa Romeo records do not exist for chassis 915003 and we have only observations and studies to go by when we report about a great many of the other early 6C2500 cars. Most of the cars described on pages 288 and 289 are described with information sourced from outside of Alfa Romeo records. I am inclined to think that Tito also arrived at a similar tentative conclusion about 915003, perhaps based on his own studies of the same material I have found, but it is possible he had some sort of proof? If so, that proof probably did not come from Alfa Romeo.
Again, I believe it will be most effective to look for a body number in the car itself (found in several places) so as to identify the car as Touring … or perhaps Boneschi. Either way, it should be one of the only cases where we can document a 6C2500 chassis that was perhaps completed 1938? I am also attaching a worksheet that may be used to describe other aspects of the car, some very easily found and documented as you search for the body number and identity.
Best of luck!
John
Your engine number "makes sense" for a car with chassis 915003. We do not have a lot of truly meaningful comparative data from the earliest 6C2500 examples, so "makes sense" (at this time) might not be truly comforting in the future?
I have finally dug carefully through some files and found some material that may help you continue your study of 915003. I've made some scans of various materials, some of which are likely copyrighted. I use them as study tools but will not share them here. In the end, if you wish to learn who made the body, I think you will want to remove a number of trim items and search for a body number. I do not know of a numbering system for Boneschi, but it is likely they had one. We know that Touring had a numbering system and the numbers are generally not difficult to find in a body that is mostly original … and which has many of its original trim parts. Sometimes you will find only the last two digits of a four digit number. The number may be stamped, scratched, painted or crayoned/penciled on some parts?
I am attaching an image I found that I'd copied during the late 1980's (perhaps early 1990's?) in a museum in Italy that is now called something different but which is still a very fine museum with an extensive library. Cross-referencing the image from1939 (most likely) and that time period to a Boneschi ledger reference in the "Boneschi" book of 1989 by Sergio Puttini, I see an intriguing possibility. On 28 December 1938, an unidentified Alfa Romeo "6C2500" arrived at Boneschi and a "cabriolet 4 posti" is listed with the client being "Alfa Romeo". Of course, it might be that the car was a 6C2300B instead, but I am wondering ...
You have seen the image of a similar body shown at Coachbhuild.com? I only just saw it a couple of days ago.
Semmartin, please remember that Tito Anselmi's published listing is derived only in part from Alfa Romeo records. The Registro 6C2500 notes are based in large part on Tito's listings and then other information has been added as it is found. Alfa Romeo records do not exist for chassis 915003 and we have only observations and studies to go by when we report about a great many of the other early 6C2500 cars. Most of the cars described on pages 288 and 289 are described with information sourced from outside of Alfa Romeo records. I am inclined to think that Tito also arrived at a similar tentative conclusion about 915003, perhaps based on his own studies of the same material I have found, but it is possible he had some sort of proof? If so, that proof probably did not come from Alfa Romeo.
Again, I believe it will be most effective to look for a body number in the car itself (found in several places) so as to identify the car as Touring … or perhaps Boneschi. Either way, it should be one of the only cases where we can document a 6C2500 chassis that was perhaps completed 1938? I am also attaching a worksheet that may be used to describe other aspects of the car, some very easily found and documented as you search for the body number and identity.
Best of luck!
John
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
Thought I should offer the basic data found relating to Alfa Romeo 6C2300 and 6C2500 that appeared in the ledger from the Boneschi book that covers 1935 to 1939 … incompletely.
Dates are more precise than I am sharing here and the dates are when the build process seemingly started for each car at Boneschi.
1936: an unidentified Alfa Romeo "guida interna" (closed) 2 seater
May 1937: Chassis 813834 cabriolet 4 seater (2 door)
August 1937: Chassis 813034 cabriolet 4 seater
March 1938: Chassis 813215 cabriolet 4 seater
The above cars are 6C2300B examples unless the unidentified car of 1936 is an anomaly.
December 1938: an unidentified "6C2500" "cabriolet 4 seater"
May 1939: Chassis 913009 cabriolet 4 seater
July 1939: Chassis 913033 cabriolet 4 seater
August 1939: Chassis 913029 berlina
There could have been some additional cars that were begun September 1939 or later?
Any such example is unlikely to be the shown in the photo in my latest posting above.
Dates are more precise than I am sharing here and the dates are when the build process seemingly started for each car at Boneschi.
1936: an unidentified Alfa Romeo "guida interna" (closed) 2 seater
May 1937: Chassis 813834 cabriolet 4 seater (2 door)
August 1937: Chassis 813034 cabriolet 4 seater
March 1938: Chassis 813215 cabriolet 4 seater
The above cars are 6C2300B examples unless the unidentified car of 1936 is an anomaly.
December 1938: an unidentified "6C2500" "cabriolet 4 seater"
May 1939: Chassis 913009 cabriolet 4 seater
July 1939: Chassis 913033 cabriolet 4 seater
August 1939: Chassis 913029 berlina
There could have been some additional cars that were begun September 1939 or later?
Any such example is unlikely to be the shown in the photo in my latest posting above.
John,
Thank you for all these comments and information. I will inspect the car carefully as soon as possible, when Covid 19 would be over!
In the collection I have other 6C2500, Sport Cabriolet Pininfarina (916419), Freccia d'Oro (916671) and SS Touring Coupe (915796).
I would need to know if you can help me regarding a Ferrari 212 Inter Touring Coupe chassis 0167EL that I owned also. Any information?
All the best .
Greg
Thank you for all these comments and information. I will inspect the car carefully as soon as possible, when Covid 19 would be over!
In the collection I have other 6C2500, Sport Cabriolet Pininfarina (916419), Freccia d'Oro (916671) and SS Touring Coupe (915796).
I would need to know if you can help me regarding a Ferrari 212 Inter Touring Coupe chassis 0167EL that I owned also. Any information?
All the best .
Greg
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
It seems odd that I was not informed that there was a response in this thread? I just came across it now. Sorry for the delayed response!
During my first trip to Italy in 1986, I saw 0167/EL with a collector not far from Bologna. I went to see another car and wound up seeing quite a number of cars interesting to my studies.
As a result, I did not have much time to study all that I would have liked to.
I believe he told me that the car came from South America during 1984. Perhaps Montevideo?
For some reason, I have two different Touring body numbers recorded for this car and I would like to learn the correct number.
915796 is news to me as an existing car today. I would definitely like to learn more!
916419 is a car that I have gathered some historical notes on and we can perhaps compare notes? There is a lot to fill in about its history.
916671 is a car for which I received some limited PRA research study notes a number of years ago from an Italian who shared a number of similar researches.
I have not followed up on learning more, but could do so when Italy's restrictions are relieved a bit more?
During my first trip to Italy in 1986, I saw 0167/EL with a collector not far from Bologna. I went to see another car and wound up seeing quite a number of cars interesting to my studies.
As a result, I did not have much time to study all that I would have liked to.
I believe he told me that the car came from South America during 1984. Perhaps Montevideo?
For some reason, I have two different Touring body numbers recorded for this car and I would like to learn the correct number.
915796 is news to me as an existing car today. I would definitely like to learn more!
916419 is a car that I have gathered some historical notes on and we can perhaps compare notes? There is a lot to fill in about its history.
916671 is a car for which I received some limited PRA research study notes a number of years ago from an Italian who shared a number of similar researches.
I have not followed up on learning more, but could do so when Italy's restrictions are relieved a bit more?
Dear John,
Regarding the 212 Inter chassis 0167EL, it has been sold new in Montevideo via Pike & Co to Mr Rodriguez-Tellechea. Then you stated the car was owned by Dr Paolo Scheda in 1986. The car went to auction in 1989 via FINARTE. Touring body number is 3468.
This all I know about the car, so any other information you could remember regarding Scheda would be great.
Regarding the Alfa 6C2500:
915796 is a SS Touring Coupe with body #3371 and engine 928103. The car has been sold new in France and is in unrestored condition.
916419 is a S cabriolet Pininfarina sold new in Italy and then exported in USA. It came back in Italy in the late 80's Original engine (926739) has been replace by 926045
916671 is a Freccia d'Oro from 1951 fitted with its original engine 927157. The car sold new in Italy. I have a big gap from 1951 to 1988 regarding the ownership history
Please send me your email address. I will send you pictures of the cars.
Best regards.
Greg
Regarding the 212 Inter chassis 0167EL, it has been sold new in Montevideo via Pike & Co to Mr Rodriguez-Tellechea. Then you stated the car was owned by Dr Paolo Scheda in 1986. The car went to auction in 1989 via FINARTE. Touring body number is 3468.
This all I know about the car, so any other information you could remember regarding Scheda would be great.
Regarding the Alfa 6C2500:
915796 is a SS Touring Coupe with body #3371 and engine 928103. The car has been sold new in France and is in unrestored condition.
916419 is a S cabriolet Pininfarina sold new in Italy and then exported in USA. It came back in Italy in the late 80's Original engine (926739) has been replace by 926045
916671 is a Freccia d'Oro from 1951 fitted with its original engine 927157. The car sold new in Italy. I have a big gap from 1951 to 1988 regarding the ownership history
Please send me your email address. I will send you pictures of the cars.
Best regards.
Greg
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
Thank you Greg!
I will have some news for you as well. You should have a personal message from me. I had to limit it a bit as it seems that such messages are limited to 420 characters and any attempts to format the message seems to add an unknown number of characters making early attempts to share (each) a "fail" until I removed all extra spaces. Makes me wish that "engineers" were less willing to make everyone conform to their ideas of what is … Oh, never mind!
I will have some news for you as well. You should have a personal message from me. I had to limit it a bit as it seems that such messages are limited to 420 characters and any attempts to format the message seems to add an unknown number of characters making early attempts to share (each) a "fail" until I removed all extra spaces. Makes me wish that "engineers" were less willing to make everyone conform to their ideas of what is … Oh, never mind!
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
