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Alright, I think I have a new one here. Saved a LS a while ago. Long story short it ran well enough until a big rainstorm. Bogged down, ran rough, figured it was ignition. Got the coils swapped out and ran well, except in reverse. Starts up, drive, 1-2-3-4 all work, but the second you shift it into R it dies. Not a stumble and stall, it dies like you turn the key OFF. Instant dead. I assume it is electronic because the LS got a newer computer controlled transmission, but I havent been able to figure out where to start, all my other cars are manuals. Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter #103 (Edited)
Troubleshooting 24v CAE A/T wiring for motor dying in R

Alright, I think I have a new one here. Saved a LS a while ago. Long story short it ran well enough until a big rainstorm. Bogged down, ran rough, figured it was ignition. Got the coils swapped out and ran well, except in reverse. Starts up, drive, 1-2-3-4 all work, but the second you shift it into R it dies. Not a stumble and stall, it dies like you turn the key OFF. Instant dead. I assume it is electronic because the LS got a newer computer controlled transmission, but I havent been able to figure out where to start, all my other cars are manuals. Any ideas?
Jake

You got 164 DVD or 94 paper wiring manual? See pg 230 CAE tranny wiring.

Do you have reverse lights and wipers work if not check F10 20A fuse. Wiper icon on fuse box in second row up from bottom.

With key on check for 12v at G154 connector pin 4 yellow-green wire coming from gear selected relay I62 with gear selector in R, D, 3, 2, 1 positions.

G154 is smaller round connector behind false firewall below/forward of wiper motor and behind blower motor fuse bar area.

If no voltage in R position I suspect binary coding in H52 gear lever switch on back of tranny not correct for R position.

With selector in P, N check for no voltage at pin 4. This is normal so starter relay will work.

Report your findings.
 

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164LS vs 164L . tranny sensors

We just finished reinstalling the motor and tranny on the 94 alfa 164LS. it has been sitting in my dads garage for 3 years. What a challenge finding out where all of the parts were and what plugs went where. i think we have it all back together. However one thing i noticed is the thermostat valve only has ONE sensor attached to it<well it has a hole for one sensor, its not there... i have one from an L tranny> this is the one that plugs into the end of the oil cooler line. the end of the thermostat valve<the cylinder thingy>has a cap on it, with no sensor plugged into it. it does NOT have the same end as the one on a 91 L auto tranny. the L tranny has a cap on the end of thermostat valve but also has the max oil temp sensor screwed into the cap. In the 1994 LS manual it ONLY mentions and shows the thermal switch attached to the thermostat valve. it does not mention or show the max oil temp sensor. the wiring harness, however has connectors for both the max oil temp sensor and the oil cooler thermal switch. im wondering if this is supposed to be like this? if so where does the connector for the max oil temp light go? .....or, did some jack *** put a cap on the end of the thermostat valve and leave the max oil temp sensor off?
i dont know if the light is on because the car is not running yet. still have to drain gas...
any help would be appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter #105
The 94-95 24V A/T models do not have that oil temp sensor. The light (dash icon) is controlled by the A/T computor which the 12v models do not have since they do not have a computor controlled tranny. I think the temp sensor is actually inside tranny in the internal wiring for valve body control.
 

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i see. they do have the thermal switch though right? in this particular case the switch is gone from the oil cooler line. will a thermal switch of a 91L transmission work there as i have one from my fried transmission?
why do you suppose they left a connector on the wiring harness for the max oil temp sensor? it is a light blue and yellow wire G150 : L39 H4 on the exploded diagram of the connectors
 

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Discussion Starter #107
i see. they do have the thermal switch though right? in this particular case the switch is gone from the oil cooler line. will a thermal switch of a 91L transmission work there as i have one from my fried transmission?
why do you suppose they left a connector on the wiring harness for the max oil temp sensor? it is a light blue and yellow wire G150 : L39 H4 on the exploded diagram of the connectors
See page 230 in wiring diagrams of 94 wiring manual and read pg 239 as see Test I for cooling fan on 24v. You can see the N68 tranny ECU runs the show.

Why wire is left in the harness who knows. Looks like there is also an extra wire to ground the oil cooler fan relay L63 while ground wire also runs into N68 ECU.
 

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thanks Steve
i think i will get the time-sert kit. it seems to be a pretty straight forward job. do you know what length insert i need? this particular kit( TIME-SERT M14 X 1.50 Metric Thread Repair Kit 1415) comes with 17.8 mm inserts. there is also a 28mm insert available
celticape said:
I installed the timesert insert yesterday, and today i put everything back together. NO LEAKS! YEAH!

It was a pretty simple procedure, and as there was no room to work I could not get a drill down in there( a right angle drill might have worked). I did it all manually with a tap wrench. good ol elbow grease.

I took Alfonso for a drive today and the tranny seems to shift fine. I will have to adjust the kick down cable. other than that, its great. $160 tranny in a $500 alfa 164. that's a bargain.

Thanks Steve and everyone else for your help.

He is running a bit rough a low RPM's but i will research the forums and figure it out.
I am (finally) getting around to repair of the transmission Steve salvaged from Florida so many years ago. The aluminum weldment at the broken fluid coupling boss leaked when I installed it, and I think I can use the timesert repair as celticape did for his stripped threads. However, I need to ensure I can get deep enough into the housing to block the leak. Some aluminum was added to the broken housing via heli-arc welding. One area was either contaminated or wasn't heated enough, and lacked fusion. I don't know the depth of the addition.

The leak is behind the new material, so I have to get deep enough to bypass that with the timesert. I expect to install it with oil-resistant RTV as sealant/lubricant (celticape: what did you use?), and I'd really like to know whether 17mm -- 11/16" is enough depth. I'd think that 28mm might be pushing it a bit, given I don't know what the interior connection is on the transmission. It wouldn't do to drill into and block any internal passages in the housing.

Michael [70 lbs overweight and WAY too slow as a result; Gosh, that was stupid to do.]
 

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Hi Steve , how much different are the internals of the later electronic controlled auto box to fix.Are the valves etc the same principal to do as in the earlier boxes you have listed the repairs for . Mine is a 1996 super (LS I think in the U.S)
If the symptoms are the same will the fixes you have done be the same or is it completely different?
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Hi Steve , how much different are the internals of the later electronic controlled auto box to fix.Are the valves etc the same principal to do as in the earlier boxes you have listed the repairs for . Mine is a 1996 super (LS I think in the U.S)
If the symptoms are the same will the fixes you have done be the same or is it completely different?
Not sure how much mechanical differences there are but main difference is electronically controlled Valve body with solenoid valves on it. There is external computor under dash to control tranny.
 

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Hi Steve, Thanks for your quick response.I suppose what I should have asked is are you going to do a repair npost like the brilliant one you've done for the early auto. :thumbup::whistling:
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Hi Steve, Thanks for your quick response.I suppose what I should have asked is are you going to do a repair npost like the brilliant one you've done for the early auto. :thumbup::whistling:
I haven't been into a 24v A/T nor do I have one to work on so no I can't write a procedure on one.
 

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Hi Steve, This Thread is amazing thank you very much for posting. I have a few questions. First I was unable to Source a Saab 9000 automatic transmission for the ZF. So I'm only using your instructions and photos. I've been able to dismantle most and repair the the actuator spring however unfortunately as is common with do-it-yourselfers, I have a few extra parts and I need to figure out where they go. I have attached 2 pictures of items I need help with. There are three small plastic balls one of which is slightly larger than the other two. The two smaller ones I know where they go unfortunately the slightly bigger one was one level deeper and I'm not sure where to place it. There also seems to be three what look to be round orifice constrictors. Also see picture. I apologize for my use of vocabulary however I don't know what to call these spare parts. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #116 (Edited)
Whoa, you went way deeper into valve body than needed to do accumulator springs. You should have just taken entire valve body off and turned it over to get to accumulator. You are way past my paygrade on taking valve body apart.

Did you see these picture and especially the 3rd one showing bolt picture in the shop manual?
 

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Discussion Starter #118
I'll say! Why did you take the valve body apart instead of just taking out only the 10 screws that held the whole assembly on to the transmission and then turn it over to get to accumulator on the bottom of the valve body? I am not sure I can help you recover from this disassembly.
 

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