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Discussion Starter #361

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Discussion Starter #362 (Edited)
164 A/T sender and drive gear info

ALFA 164 ZF A/T speedometer sender and drive gear INFO
Here is what 164 A/T speedometer sender with 26mm nut looks like and the drive unit and snap ring that holds it into A/T differential. The units are diffferent from the 5-speed manual tranny as that sender has 22mm nut and drive gear and housing very different.
 

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Steve: Either I am not posting my question properly ........or........you are misunderstanding my post. I am seeking, if available any "original" - "Dealers Option" brochures that identify what "options" a potential buyer would have back in 1993 when ordering/purchasing a 164. Not "parts available", Not "parts that fit", Not "where an I obtain these parts", just the "Options Available" back then......I'm not even sure if such a brochure exist; other than the color; maybe there were not "options". Thanks for your past replies; take care.
 

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Discussion Starter #364 (Edited)
Steve: Either I am not posting my question properly ........or........you are misunderstanding my post. I am seeking, if available any "original" - "Dealers Option" brochures that identify what "options" a potential buyer would have back in 1993 when ordering/purchasing a 164. Not "parts available", Not "parts that fit", Not "where an I obtain these parts", just the "Options Available" back then......I'm not even sure if such a brochure exist; other than the color; maybe there were not "options". Thanks for your past replies; take care.
I posted all that 164 Std, Not Available and Option items in the sales brochure along with the window stickers info for the 164base, L and S models. Look at all your posts where I attached that link to my post that had all that stuff attached. On the L model everything was included standard in the MRSP as std equipment except sun roof and A/T and maybe headlight washers. As was also previously stated in those posts the 164S engine, rear deck spoiler, ground effects, sport suspension, dual tip rear muffler and pepperoni slicer S wheels were not available to order on the L model.
 

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Discussion Starter #365
Steve: Either I am not posting my question properly ........or........you are misunderstanding my post. I am seeking, if available any "original" - "Dealers Option" brochures that identify what "options" a potential buyer would have back in 1993 when ordering/purchasing a 164. Not "parts available", Not "parts that fit", Not "where an I obtain these parts", just the "Options Available" back then......I'm not even sure if such a brochure exist; other than the color; maybe there were not "options". Thanks for your past replies; take care.
I posted all that 164 Std, Not Available and Option items in the sales brochure along with the window stickers info for the 164base, L and S models. Look at all your posts where I attached that link to my post that had all that stuff attached. On the L model everything was included standard in the MRSP as std equipment except sun roof and A/T and maybe headlight washers.
 

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Discussion Starter #366
Alfa 164 rear engine support and IM axle info

Alfa 164 Intermediate axle bearing Alfa # 60801307

SKF 62206-2RS1 ID 30mm OD 62mm W 20mm

IM axle 5-speed 60800350
IM axle A/T 60511872

I can't see the difference but eper says these rear engine support mounts that IM axle goes through are different.

91-93 164 12v rear engine/IM axle supports:

5-speed 60511878
A/T 60510357

24v rear engine support oil filter attaches to and IM axle goes through:

5-sp 60808247
A/T 60808390
 

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Discussion Starter #367 (Edited)
Alfa V6 Busso engine head gaskets and oil dowel oring info

Do four (4) or more wrongs make a right in Alfa shop/parts manuals? I don’t think so. Shame on me for not trying to untangle the errors on later V6 Busso engine’s head gaskets, oil dowel pins, and the O-ring “pads”.

The two grooved 60513356 oil dowel pins and their respective 60513359 o-rings located between V6 engine block and heads were put into production Alfa V-6 engines starting with 1987 Milano engine ser no 69213, all 88-92 Milano/75 V6 engines and all 164 V6 12v/24v Busso engines. The two O-rings in the current gasket sets go in the grooves on the oil dowel pins. The new style head gaskets have molded in ribbed seals in hole around dowel pins. Refer to TSB 01.88.01 on new style head gaskets with the ONE molded in sealing “pad” and the ONE o-ring per grooved dowel pin.

Page 01-82 in 164 12v shop manual and pg. 01-71 in 24v shop manual are wrong/mis-leading on calling for two pads on dowel pins. Early r 87 V6 and GTV6 Busso engines did not have grooved dowel pins The two small O-rings in gasket sets go in oil dowel grooves on all later Milano (75), 164 87-97 V6 Busso engines and the head gaskets have fixed rubber "pads" molded into gaskets.

Same error is in the 12v/24v service manuals. Why nobody at Alfa caught this error and did a correction tech publication bulletin to correct errors in shop manuals is unknown. Years ago I put o-rings in dowel pin grooves and also at base of dowels even with rubber molded seal. Double protection I guess but only two 60513359 o-rings supplied with head gaskets so I bought extra 0-rings. If you got them use them can’t hurt as heads mashed them flat for better seal was my thinking.

TSB 01-88.01 released 05/09/88 on new style head gaskets with molded ribbed viton pads in head gasket gasket for around oil dowel pins addresses use of only one o-ring is head gasket have molded in ribbed seal. But even this TSB is still badly written. Surely all the V-6 164 shop manuals should have reflected this new style head gasket with Viton ribbed molded seals and one o-ring in each dowel pin grooves.
I check both 75 and 164 eper V6 engine parts listings and found the 75 V6 eper only calls for one dowel and one o-ring, at least the 164 V-6 eper calls for two grooved dowels and two o-rings. There is another couple 01.88.02 or 03 TSB showing the 6 different styles of oil dowels used since 1981.
When I get time I will scan those TSB’s and add them to this post.
 

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Discussion Starter #368

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Discussion Starter #369 (Edited)
Centering steering rack and steering angle sensor info

Centering steering rack and steering angle sensor

The shop manual really doesn't covering properly centering a 164 steering rack with centering spring or for that matter one without a centering spring.

If a 164 rack has a centering spring, to find the so called "true" center position you need to find the points where the centering spring "damper" is unloaded and input shaft from steering moves freely left and right of center. When you figure out how much the free travel is divide that measurement in half and that is true center.

If rack is a rack for manual 5-speed model measuring full left to right lock to lock turns and dividing in half should be that center point.

Not so simple for 164 A/T model rack but using the center of spring free-play measurement would be the best way.

As for adjusting steering angle sensor (SAS) on a 164S/Q model correctly , the steering rack has to be centered and steering wheel centered to rack center point then the wheels have to be centered by adjusting toe to zero with steering wheel locked in center position. No easy feat by the way.

It will be hard to find an alignment shop willing to find true center and adjust wheels to zero tow in and test drive it the be sure the car drive straight and wheels stays straight but if so then and only then can you set the steering angle sensor on bottom of steering column by loosening set screw in phonic wheel and rotating it until stepped pin with threads can be inserted through hole in sensor mounting bracket and rigging hole in phonic wheel so you can screw threads on upper end of rigging pin into mounting bracket. then you tighten set screw in phonic wheel and remove threaded rig pin.

Steering rack installation with no real centering instructions is in Shop manual section 23 steering section and steering angle sensor (SAS) info is in section 21 suspension section with only slight reference to SAS section 23 steering column.


I doubt any 164 now after all these years has a properly set up and centered steering rack or corrected adjusted SAS for a 164S/Q model.

I set up a centering spring with left, right and the split the difference to get center point of 164 steering rack. Looks like about total of 100 degrees of free play left to right before centering spring starts to tension. the three sharpie pen marks on both rack piston and centering spring shafts are now shown in pictures.

Next set of pictures in next post will show the SAS and phonic wheel on steering column.
 

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Discussion Starter #370
164S/Q Steering Angle Sensor on Steering Column

164S/Q Steering Angle Sensor on Steering Column

I don't have the actual threaded step pin tool so I inserted a phillips screw to show where rig pin goes and allen wrench to shew where set screw located.
 

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Discussion Starter #371
Not so easy to find center point on a rack for an automatic 164 especially if it doesn't have a spring cartridge damper. I thing you are going to set it up once rack installed and turn it to the right and left and see when the inside of left wheel hits to bulging inner fender liner over top of A/T so turning wheel full right does not chew up inner fender liner.
 

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Discussion Starter #372 (Edited)
Repairing broken 164 tank cover fuel pump ground wire

Repairing 164 tank cover fuel pump broken ground wire

I decided to proof (Alfa test) out a repair to a broken fuel pump ground wire inside the 60542711 steel Alfa 164 fuel tank cover.
I have run out of serviceable USA spec steel fuel tank covers as all my spares have the black ground wire broken off riveted in terminal lug.
Procedure
1. Remove potting compound around black ground wire terminal on top of cover
2. Drill out terminal rivet with small enough drill to prevent damaging wire terminal
3. .Remove terminal lug and salvage upper and lower “nylon” isolators from cover
4. Make new black ground wire with small eyelet terminal ends
5. Get a small machine screw, washer and nut assembly
6. Assemble screw and new wire with terminals on bottom isolator spacer
7. Add a #6 statoseal neoprene washer on screw
8. Insert screw through hole in tank cover and install larger upper teardrop shaped isolater, and add upper black ground wire terminal; washer and nut.
9. Tighten up nut on screw to hold wire terminals tight in isolators
10. Reseal the oval opening in upper isolator with sealant
 

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Discussion Starter #373
wire repair cont pictures
 

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I posted all that 164 Std, Not Available and Option items in the sales brochure along with the window stickers info for the 164base, L and S models. Look at all your posts where I attached that link to my post that had all that stuff attached. On the L model everything was included standard in the MRSP as std equipment except sun roof and A/T and maybe headlight washers.
No headlight washers on my standard 164L with "optional" sun roof.
 

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Discussion Starter #375
Tool - air cleaner cover latch locking

Tool - air cleaner cover latch locking

Installed a new 164 air cleaner element in BB2 my 164S and as per usual I had to dig out my modified Home Depot paint can lid removal tool to latch the latches on the air cleaner box.

I have made a few of these over the years by bending a curved hook on the flat end to grab and pull the latches overcenter. The eyelet all ready on the other end makes a great handle to run your index finger through to pull latches over center.

This tool is especially helpful when installing a new un-compressed 71736138 Alfa 164 element.

It will work on GTV6 and Milano, too and maybe even other Alfa models or makes of cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #376 (Edited)
Alfa 164 S31 RPM/Timing sensor wiring diagram

Alfa 164 S31 RPM/Timing sensor wiring diagram

Since the Bosch 3-wire MALE and FEMALE connector often gets broken and turns to dust causing wires to become separated I thought this would be helpful when trying to "pin the tail" back on the 164 donkey so to speak.

Coming from Fuel injection harness there is a THREE (3) wire harness covered with a green outer covering and then black insulating tape. The end of that 3-wire cable has a Bosch FEMALE Connector. It is located near and under upper engine mount and rear timing belt cover area. Now, with the center aligning notch in this connector facing UP the wiring order is as follows:

Left terminal is braided EMI stranded silver looking wire.
Center terminal is black wire with copper wire strands
Right terminal wire is yellow. With copper strands

Now the MALE 3-wire Bosch connector coming from the front crank pulley RPM/Timing Sensor wiring order has to be different. So with aligning notch again facing UP the wiring order is as follows:

The BRAIDED EMI silver looking wire still on the left and goes to braided wire in female connector
BUT the YELLOW wire now in the CENTER position and goes to black wire in female connector
The black wire is on the right AND now goes to yellow wire on right in female connector
 

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Just a quick thanks Steve.

New to the forum with a 1991 L 164. The amount of information provided by you is overwhelming. Cardisc on the way. It appears one's VOM gets a good workout with this vehicle
 

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Discussion Starter #378
Just a quick thanks Steve.

New to the forum with a 1991 L 164. The amount of information provided by you is overwhelming. Cardisc on the way. It appears one's VOM gets a good workout with this vehicle
Welcome to our 164 Ship of Fools!
 

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Discussion Starter #379
Some Alfa 164 exhaist gasket p/n info

Here are some 164 OEM exhaust gasket parts numbers:
164B/L/S exhaust manifold gasket at heads 6ea 60506636
164B/L/S front down pipe 2ea 60510306 Centerline TH416
164B/L frt cat 60510307 COPPER TWO HOLER
164S frt cat 2ea 82473214
164B/L rear cat 60510816 copper Victor Reinz or Mahle gasket #7135
164S rear cat metal ring 82420455 for L/H pipe and 82473321 gasket Bosal #256-203 for R/H pipe flange
164B/L/S/LS/Q rear muffler inlet pipe ring 82407147, also for 164LS/Q center muffler to Cat outlet.
 

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