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Discussion Starter #341
Thanks.

I'll just make a couple of those for the 164s until I find that four wire connector some day. I always prefer straight plug and play. Have already had the switches and wires, just need the connector.

I haven't checked yet, but I wonder if the Milano has the same plug setup, don't remember. Will have to look, although getting to the switch wiring requires removing the bottom column shroud.[/QUOTE

That black connector i used to make that bypass and start hook up was from a bad Alfa ignition switch probably from a Milano one I couldn't remove the stuck key.
 

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I figured that. I'll spend some time to see if there is a source for that style of connector, but I suspect that they would be scarce or simply no longer available.
 

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Discussion Starter #343
Rough Draft for TROUBLESHOOTING ALFA 164 STARTER SYSTEM

TROUBLESHOOTING ALFA 164 STARTER SYSTEM
TESTING NON-WORKING STARTER System
1. Starter fails to turn over Engine with key in start position.
• Check battery for 12v charge and clean battery cable terminals and battery post.
• Check for power to dash voltmeter and dash icons with key in ON position. If no power, check red wire at ignition switch wiring connector for 12v. Jumper red to brown and pink wire at connector to see if dash powers up.
• With key in start position check for 12v power at black starter wire from ignition switch to purple wire at ignition switch wiring connecter under dash. If no power to black wire jump red to purple to see if starter will work
• If ignition switch powers up dash and black to purple wire has power in START position or when red wire jumped check to see if I10 starter relay near ignition switch will click when key turned to start.
• If relay does not click check that N45 Antitheft unit in trunk is not armed with remote.
• Bypass anti -theft unit purple and purple-black wires and check that relay will click now
• If starter still won’t turn engine over and relay clicks you can try another relay. If still NO GO disconnect G151 big round connector behind false firewall and check for power with key in start position at female pin 1 in outside circle.
• If power at female pin 1 you can try to apply 12v power directly to male pin one directly to starter wire and see if starter will go now.
• Another thing to check is ground cable from transmission to chassis at chassis grounding point near front corner of coolant tank and back corner of air cleaner.
• Last resort is to check starter energizing wire at starter solenoid on top of starter up behind rear exhaust manifold and heat shield.
• If starter still won’t work time to change starter.
 

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Good stuff. Tried it all and a dirty terminal seemed to be the culprit. It is difficult to access but from the bottom (BATTERY DISCONNECTED, NO BLING ON FINGERS) you can reach up and feel the terminal with one hand. As I have a service pit that gives me around 8 inches of extra clearance, I just had to jack both sides of the front up, not right off the ground, just to give more access and I was able to reach under and pull off the old spade (wire had twisted off in previous attempt). Made up a new wire and, funny thing, it only gave me trouble after I applied dielectric grease so made up another wire, installed on the terminal after I wiped it off (try that without seeing what's what), no dielectric and seems fine. You should add "check 7.5a fuse for anti-theft system in fusebox" as mine had popped between tests and probably caused me more troublesome testing.
This image may not be much help but it shows the new wire leading to the terminal (barely visible in the inspection mirror at right). There is another smaller spade terminal at the bottom but that seems long corroded. Still no idea where the dangling wire belongs.
 

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Discussion Starter #345 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #346

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Discussion Starter #347
Rough draft Quick tests for N0-Start condition of Alfa 164 12v V6 models

Quick tests for N0-Start condition of Alfa 164 12v V6 models
1. Check for power and that dash lights/powers up icons when Key turned ON. Voltmeter should read about 12v.
2. Check that S12b RED STRIPE Bosch 0332014112 Motronic Relay on top radiator support by ignition coil clicks as key turned on, too. If not check 15A F22 engine services fuse bottom row second from left (position 20) in main fuse box.
3. Also you can test green-black wire at terminal 15 on ignition coil for 12v with key on (does not go through F22 fuse it is straight from ignition switch).
4. Turn key to start and see if starter turns over engine. If not troubleshoot starter circuit starting at battery and ignition switch, antitheft and starter relay system.
5. If starter works, remove S12a Bosch 0332014113 fuel pump relay next to RED STRIPE relay and check for power with key on from RED stripe relay at pin socket 86 red wire and from ignition switch via F22 fuse at pin socket 30 (pink wires).
6. If no power at pin 86 but power at pin 30 replace bad red stripe w/diode relay for engine computer. If no power at pin 30 from F22 fuse check ignition switch wiring/connector under dash near switch.
7. Jumper a wire from pin socket 30 to pin socket 87 pink-white wire for fuel pump (not second pin 87 orange-black wire). With key on fuel pump should run. If pump runs leave jumper installed for more testing of NO Start issue.
8. You can do a fuel pump pressure test and flow volume test by installing a fuel injection test gauge with T-fitting in fuel pressure hose going to fuel rail.
9. If you have power at pin 30 with key on and pump does not run when jumper installed to pink-white wire pin 87 you will have to go to trunk to check wiring to pump there. You can remove 4 nylon fasteners from inside ski boot door and then remove front wall carpet panel and two plastic panels behind rear seat to gain access to fuel pump tank cover. Test with key on pin-white wire for 12v power and test black wire chassis end for continuity to ground AND with connector still disconnected check fuel pump connector end for continuity between pink-white and black wire to see if pump wiring or pump bad inside tank.
10. NOW verify S7 Bosch 2-wire connector is hooked to coolant temp sensor for engine computer in mid thermostat housing that is hidden under and at same 45 degree angle as top radiator hose (not the two spade wire sender for gauge next to timing belt cover).
11. Next remove A5 distributor cap three 8mm (5/16”) hex head bolts and inspect ignition rotor for damage and ABOUT 1kΩ (ohms) resistance tip to center button.
12. Inspect cap for corrosion, cracks and that spring loaded carbon plunger in the center of cap is not worn out, is protruding and springs back when pushed in.
13. If cap or rotor is/are bad replace them and do not mix up plug wires firing order in new cap.
14. With coil wire disconnected from coil and cap, check coil wire continuity with multi-meter for ABOUT 1.1k Ω.
15. Use an induction style timing light to check for spark flashes while cranking over engine. Many flashes in coil wire while 1 in 6 in a plug wire.
16. If no flashing now test the continuity of the S31 RPM/Timing sensor located by front crankshaft pulley by disconnecting Bosch 3-wire connector near top engine mount area and testing for about 5.6kΩ between center pin and one of outside pins and no reading to other outside pin. If no reading to either outside pin from center pin then you need to jack up car, remove front wheel and front inner fender and lower timing belt cover to gain access to sender next to teeth on front crank pulley. This sensor is what sends a signal to computer to make it fire sparkplugs, energize injectors and ground fuel pump relay to make fuel pump run.
 

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Discussion Starter #348
Flex pipe replacment info for 164L 2" down pipes 164S larger

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/7882873-post5.html

Flex pipe replacment info for 164L 2" down pipes 164S larger
Get your muffler shop to replace them and reuse your old pipes. I had a set done but only needed one of the two replaced. They are 10" long and have 2.0" ID for 164L

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ust-flex-pipes

10" overall 2" ID: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/j...006n/overview/

These have 10" body but overall length 14" maybe better choice if your old down pipes engine end and at cat flange have to be cut back. these could be trimmed to fit better than true 10" overall as were OEM slipped over original pipes: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-42216/overview/

Here is the set I have had one replaced by my muffler shop guy.
 

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Discussion Starter #349 (Edited)
91-93 164 power and starter wiring diagrams

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/7885977-post3.html

91-93 164 starter and power distribution wiring diagrams
The 91-93 164 starter and power distribution wiring diagrams for your viewing pleasure.

Dotted line in starter diagram for 5-speed models.

Note: I added in B1 ignition switch and purple starter relay power wire going to N45 Anti-theft unit in trunk. The 241a two-wire connector where you can bypass N45 is located in center console to right off shifter under right side console carpet panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #350 (Edited)
Tensioner bearing info for 24v and 12v Alfa V6 engines

Alfa 12v and 24v V6 timing belt tensioner bearing info
This bearing info is for the Alfa 12v V6 Alfa engine with oil fed timing belt tensioner and the 24v V6 engine timing belt tensioner bearing.

The bearing outside diameter is 58.5 mm, width is 30 mm and inside diameter is 35 mm.

Some possible manufacturer's part numbers for just the bearing with no center hub are:
SKF 633254
FAG 536392
HT 633254

The Alfa Romeo part numbers for bearing with center hub are:

60513022 bearing and center hub for Alfa 12v GTV6, 75, 155, 164, RZ and SZ for oil fed tensioners 60513020 or 60808222

60580235 bearing and center hub is for 24v V6 164 with 60584475 tensioner (sealed unit) BUT bearing can be pressed off hub and used for 12v V6 engines with oil fed tensioners.

ALFA ROMEO 60580235 bearing with 24v hub Bearing on hub is same as one used on oil fed tensioner for 12v V6 so bearing can be removed and pressed onto 12v oil fed hub.

Cross-reference numbers for 60580235 bearing and hub assembly:

AUTOKIT 03.80144
BREDA LORETT CR3423
BREDA LORETT TDI3423
BREDA LORETT CR 3423
DAYCO ATB2574
LANCIA 60580235
RPK RPK0091641
SK SK0080541
SPIDAN 70275
TREVI AUTOMOTIVE TD1582
OPTIMAL 0-N1090 / 0N1090
Updated info
 

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note about HT 633254

Thanks Steve.

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but will do it here as well:

bearing HT 633254, easily purchased on ebay.it under the name "autokit 03.80144" for c. €49, is a 13-ball single row bearing. (the original bearing is double row with 24 balls). It comes with a hub that needs to be pressed out if the bearing is going to be used on the 12v engine with oil-fed de-tensioner. Pressing the hub out is not as simple as it sounds because a very special collar—39.95mm ID x 48mm OD x 30mm Height—needs to be machined, otherwise you may damage the balls or race.
 

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Discussion Starter #352

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Discussion Starter #353

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Discussion Starter #354 (Edited)
Some of my favorite test equipment part 1

Sort out some of my test equipment I use on my Alfa 164s and other vehicles.
Going from top row left to right:
1. Remote starter button with cables and alligator clips
2. Vacuum gauge with tubing
3. Multimeter with wiring cables/probes
4. NOID Wafers for testing FI system injector harness
5. Inductive Timing light with cables
Second row from left to right
6. Air bag tester with resistors for Alfa 164 91-93
7. Coolant Temp Sensor rheostat variable resistor tester
8. Test lamp with probe and ground wire
9. Battery and alternator tester with test leads (can be used as a test lamp, too)
10 Fuel injection system fuel pressure testers
11. Alfa 164 ignition switch bypass tester
12. Spark tester with grounding clip
13. Relay pin socket jumper wire w/two male spade terminals
14. Bosch coolant temp sensors (CTS)cream 023 and blue 026 w/blue connector with test leads to read sensor's resistance cold or hot
15. Cam Pulley Timing Template 69 degrees (1:00 clock) right/rear cam and 72.5 degrees (11:00 o'clock) left/front cam with engine at Top Dead Center (TDC) mark on crank pulley
16. Inductive hand held ammeter
17. Infared temp sensor measures in either C/F degrees
 

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Discussion Starter #355
Alfa 164 Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS) info

Alfa 164 Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS) info
AR 60800167 ss by 00059723320000 Z WTP PUMP SNSR It is same Coolant temp sensor for both 164 12v and 24v as well as Milano.

Blue colored Bosch 0280130026 is usually found on 12v 164 and has/had originally matching blue colored bosch wiring connector.

Cream colored Bosch 0280130023 is usually found on GTV6, Milano and 24v 164 and has/had originally matching cream bosch wiring connector.

Either one will work with either 12v or 24v 164 and either colored connector unless owner is AR[etentive].

See many choices on ebay for both Bosch blue 026 and cream 023.
 

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Discussion Starter #356
Testing Coolant Temp Sensors (CTS) with multimeter

I tested some CTS senders today on and off engine using multimeter.

Also tested and used variable resistor CTS to simulate CTS hooked to computer and by varying was able to induce no start cold and increase engine idle cold and warm by varying resistance.
 

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Discussion Starter #357

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Discussion Starter #358 (Edited)
Alfa 164 24v coolant tube o-ring info

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/8010817-post7.html

Alfa 164 24v coolant tube o-ring info:

I do not have any of those 14458680 seals to measure them, but Difatta has them in stock at pretty good price.

1445868000 O/RING SEAL www.difatta.com [email protected]

Also used on Fiats, Lancias and FORD New Holland tractors it seems:

CNH-FORD New Holland O-Ring 14458680 OEM NOS, USA MADE, 1.487" ID x .103" Thick

Description:
References equivalents:
14458680
60808353 old Alfa Romeo number according to my eper
1445868000
 

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Well although I am "new" to the Alfa Romeo scene and a new owner of a "93" 164; it has become apparent that Steve is the "go to guy" when you have any 164 questions, that's good to know. So...............Steve: I know on my VW I was able to get the "history" of the car, where it was made, model, where it was shipped to here in the States etc., I also know that on my classic Ford I was able to order a "Marty Report" which again told the history. Q. Is there a service or anyway to obtain the "history" on my 1993 / 164; what I'm really looking for is what "options" the car came with"? Any suggestions. Many thanks. (P.S. just got dont clearing the drive from the 10+ inches of snow we got last night, poured a cup of coffee and going to do some web surfing on Alfa Romeo 164).
 

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Discussion Starter #360
60777916 12v/24v 164 and 75 3.0L rings info

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/8013385-post2.html

60777916 12v/24v 164 and 75 3.0L rings

I thought we already did this exercise? p/n for 164 3.0 12v/24v rings are 60777916 and the same for 3.0L 75 engine but not the same as in the 166.

GOETZE Part Number: 08-527500-00 Product Category: Piston Ring Kit This part interchanges with the following part numbers: OE Part Numbers: ALFA ROMEO 60743920, ALFA ROMEO 60777916 Competitor Part Numbers: AE R46500 STD

Di Fatta Brothers | Alfa Romeo Parts | Fiat Parts has them 6077791600 RING S.3.0 email them [email protected]

There is a listing for them on ebay, too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-Ring...RZxBMg&vxp=mtr
 
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