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airborne alfas

My impression is that only one example of the FW200 was actually flown with the AR 135 motors . Other German aircraft to fly with alfa power were a single JU52 used by ALA Littoria on transalpine routes fitted with 3-AR126rc.34 between 1935-1944. One other German ,although Italian built aircraft to fly was the Dornier Wal and Super Wal which flew with Alfa built Jupiter motors 2 on the Wal and 4 onthe super.( the proto Wal and early production types were Italian built as Germany was forbidden to build such aircraft at the time . The Wal seems to have been fitted with every engine under the sun at various stages)
Charley
 

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Airborne Alfas

A number of AR powered aircraft exist in Italian Museums to this day including Alfa's own museum which displays one record breaking aircraft and an variety of motors and Alfa props.
the following Museums also have a wide range of AR powered and other aircraft on display.
Italian Airforce Museum ,Vigna di Valle, Roma

Museo Aeronautico caproni di Taledo ,Trento

Museo Nazionale Della Scienza e Della Tecnica, Milano,
The caproni Museum certainly has its own website and the Airforce museum should be accessed via the Italian Air Ministry site.
A number of years ago the old Alfa Museum site had a 360 degree QuickTime
virtual tour of the museum . This now seems to have disappeared into the ether but perhaps a way could be found to add thisto the Abb site
harley
 

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Alfa Romeo Jet

I can't read Italian, but what I can see here seems to say Alfa Romeo built a jet engine (or, they had a hand in it somehow)!

(Based on a Dual Overhead Cam 4 no doubt! :D)

= = = = = = = = = = = = =
http://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/planes_it/jet/jet_it.htm

Tipo - Campini-Caproni
Motori - Alfa Romeo Asso L.121 RC40
Potenza - hp 900

Il prototipo n.1 del Campini - Caproni prevedeva un sistema di propulsione capace di convogliare e comprimere dinamicamente l'aria grazie al moto relativo dell'aereo, successivamente l'aria subiva una seconda compressione ad opera di un compressore assiale a tre stadi accoppiato meccanicamente ad un motore a scoppio aeronautico (un Alfa Romeo Asso L.121 RC40 da 900 Hp), all'uscita del compressore l'aria veniva riscaldata mediante bruciatori esterni e successivamente fatta riespandere attraverso un ugello convergente-divergente a sezione variabile mediante una spina mobile tipo Pelton che generava una spinta pari a 750 kg.
 

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airborne alfas

I am afraid that you are qouting from the same incorrect Regia Marine site that attributes the Campini aircrafts engine to Alfa ,when as shown above the ASSO engine is in fact an Isotta-Fraschini motor.
Charley
 

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Once again, foiled. I try to add interesting information for everyone, and fall on my face. Thanks for the correction. Darn.

It is a cool plane though. :)
 

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I would sell my collection of Alfa cars and parts to own an Alfa powered airplane, didn't matter if it flew or not, just owning it gives one bragging rights. :) If the song of an Alfa spider is sweet, imagine the sound of the Alfa engine in the air...that would be something to hear. :D I wonder if there is a barn in Italy...
 

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How about an ALFA powered autogyro...........
Charley
That looks like a marvellous project...I have always looked at the Alfa boxer motor when its been sitting on the workshop floor and said it would make a good aircraft engine.
Any particular modifications needed to make it 'airworthy'? The exhaust looks somewhat un-restricted, just what the boxer prefers. Is it a 1.7L running 40mm IDF's? Where are you located?
 

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That is a picture of Fred DiMatteo with the Benson Gyrocopter. I think that might have been one of his pet projects before he passed away.
 

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Airborne Alfas

Many thanks Veloce for putting a name to the photo ,I hope that the project lives on as its builder would have wished.
I like yourself would give anything to have an Alfa powered sport plane ,so share your dream of that Italian barn find. mabye one of the attached mostly AR 115 powered craft would fill the bill..
1... CAPRONI CA.163 1-AR115
2... CAPRONI CA.603 1-AR115
3... CAPRONI CA.602 1-AR115
4... SAIMAN 200 1- AR115
5... SAIMAN 202(204R) 1- AR110 ( AR115)
 

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Airborne Alfas

A few more dream machines ,again mostly Ar115 powered ,
1...BREDA BA.39 1-AR BUILT COLOMBO S.63.
2...CANSA CA5B biposto 1-AR110.
3... FIAT G.46 - 1-AR115.
4... NARDI FN.305 1-AR115
5... AMBROSINI S.7 1-AR115.
Of the above the Ambrosini fills the bill for me as the perfect Alfa powered machine . The lines of the swept wing development of the S.7 are even more perfect ,unfortunatly I cannot lay my hands on the photos of the Freccia at the moment.
Charley
 

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Amazing that all of these planes are Alfa powered. With all of these planes built, one begins to wonder why AR stopped building production airplane engines. Most likely it was a 'bottom' line issue and not cost effective. With most defunct engine builders, one has to resort to custom fabrication of parts to keep them flying. I wonder if there is a supplier of AR engine parts for these aircraft?
Is there a European version of "Trade-A-Plane" ? I wonder if a person could find a AR powered plane?
Again, I would very seriously consider selling the whole lot of cars and parts for a flyable AR powered airplane. It would be kinda hard to take to a convention. :) Think I could win in my class? :D
The Breda would be my favorite...looks along the lines of an Alfa Romeo SZ for an airplane. The Ambrosini would be more like a TZ do you suppose?

Did you notice the lack of visual dihedral in the Caproni 602 and 603? I wonder how that 602 would be for stability with out the apparent lack of dihedral? The 603 with that big tail would be wicked for doing spins...flip right over in a heart beat and around she goes.
 

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Chris,

Post WW2, Alfa Romeo built engines under licence from the English Bristol-Siddley company, who were a bit peeved as the Italian engines were more powerful than the original English ones!

I would guess that a combination of the move towards jet engines, massive development costs & the dominant market positions of firms such as Pratt & Witney, Rolls Royce etc. made it risky running with the established big boys.

Just my tuppence worth...

Tony Stevens
England
 

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Airborne Alfas

Hi Tony,
After Alfa ceased production of its own piston engines ,it restricted its aviation work to overhaul of Curtiss-Wright R-1820 and R-3350 piston engines and J65 turbojet engines,Rolls Royce Dart turboprop and Rolls_Royce Avon and Conway engines .
In the early 1960's it resumed its manufacturing activities ,by joining in the European production programme( with FIAT ,FN of Belgium and BMW ) for FIAT(General Electric) J79-GE-11A turbojet to power the F-104G Starfighter that were being built in Europe. It was also the European distributer of the GE J85 and CJ 610 turbojets.
Alfa also contributed to the Fiat G.91 programme ,as this was powered by the Bristol Orpheus 803 engine I assume that these are the motors that you refer to. Piaggio was the lead manufacturer for the Bristol Viper that powered the Aermacchi MB326 , did Alfa also supply components for this engine?
I saw a press release which referred to the Alfa stand at Le Bourget in 1968 having as many as 17 turbine engines on display although unfortunatly no breakdown on type was given.
In the 1980's Alfa also developed the AR318 turboprop , Which if memory serves was a development of the Rolls-Royce RB-318.
Charley
 

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Where did the aviation division reside? Was it in Turin near FIAT? So little has ever been spoken of the aviation side of Alfa Romeo ,just as it has been about the nautical division.
 

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Airborne Alfas

Hi ,
The full address of Alfa avio was as follows..
ALFA ROMEO AVIO-SOCIETA' AEROMOTORISTICA PER AZIONI,
R & D DESIGN TECHNOLOGIES -PROPULSION & AEROTHERMODYNAMICS,
80038 POMIGLIANO D'ARCO
NAPOLI,
ITALIE.
I am attaching a press release from General Electric from 1997 which I think sheds light on the extent of Alfas role in major jet projects they are clearly taking the lead in the development of a GE badged motor.
You mentioned above wing planform of the Caproni ca.602 ,I cannot find any photos or drawings of the 602 wing , but I have two photos of the ca,603 .As the wings are substantially the same ,with the exception of the extra strut on the 603 ,you can get an idea of the wings on the 602.
I have also traced the photos of the ambrosini s.7 freccia swept wing . this was fitted with an AR 115 for flight test, it was this aircraft that was later modified to become the SAGITTARO, replacing the AR 115 WITH A Marbore jet engine ,
I will post them below.
 

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Charley, thank you for taking the time to write about all of this. Your efforts are showing a side of AR that few know about. This is alot larger of an effort than I imagined. Yes, we see the engines in the musuem in Milan, but there are no airplanes on display. The museum dedicated to the automobile and little to the other efforts.
I seem to recall from a brochure of AR from the '70's, a picture showing some workers around a jet engine, explaining that they were working on overhauling.
In looking over the Caproni 603, there is dihedral in the lower wing and what appears to be reverse dihedral in the upper wing. I can only imagine that plane would have been alot of fun to fly.
I was wondering where in Naples that plant might have been? I was at the Sud plant in the late 70's. Could the plant for engines have been on those grounds?
 

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Airborne Alfas

HI again Veloce,
I don't know about the present but the Ambrosini record breaking plane"Angel of the Children " I-ASSI was on display at the Alfa Museum. I attach a few photos of it in flight and in the Museum.
I also attach two press release's the first ,Oct 1996 ,regarding the Fiat incorporation of Alfa Avio into the Fiat Avio structure (it still kept its name at this point) . The second is the disposal , to fund the car business ,of Fiat avio of its engine making assets and the dissappearence of the Fiat Avio and Alfa Avio names now becoming merely AVIO. It looks that the naples site now is back merely in the overhaul business.
Charley
 

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