Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,814 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
To answer why we love Italian cars I quote David E. Davis:

"The Germans invented the automobile
The Japanese made it affordable
The Americans made it a disposable item
But, the ITALIANS taught it to dance & sing!"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,814 Posts
Discussion Starter #6

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
Did they get credit for doing it?
Most credit the Germans (Benz) with the first motor-car, but an Italian internal combustion engined car was produced 1 year before the Benz. The name of the company began with the letter B....Bernardini or something similar... I'll have to try and find it in my files.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
Who Invented the Automobile

The Italians actually invented the automobile, a year before the Germans!
I am unable to find any source that indicates the Italians invented the first automobile, keeping in mind I don't have Georgano's book easily at hand, The New Encyclopedia of Motorcars, 1885 to Present or the 4 or 5 volume set The Beaulieu Encyclopedia of the Automobile edited by Georgano that are both in Pat's library among many others, so I'm depending solely on what I can locate on the Internet from my bed.

A lot may depend on how the question is focused, what the correct answer for that focus is. For instance, are we talking about the first steam automobile, the first electric automobile, the first gasoline automobile, the first 4-wheel drive, 4-stroke, gasoline automobile, or the first combined combustion engine and combined carriage automobile? Depending on the answer, the inventor may very well be different.

FWIW, most sources give credit to Benz for the first gasoline automobile in 1885, but also mention that it can be traced back as far as the 15th century to Leonardo da Vinci.

Food for thought, argue on....I don't know that there is "one" clear-cut definitive answer.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
It's Bernardi, and the Italian patent date for the first vehicle driven by an internal combusion engine is August 5th, 1882. A car was actually built in 1883. Of course there are vehicles powered by steam and other means of much earlier dates. The information is from this book:

FIAT a Fifty Years Record
Arnoldo Mondadori, 1951(1st edition, English)
Hardcover 298pp plus appendices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
The First Car?

It's Bernardi, and the Italian patent date for the first vehicle driven by an internal combusion engine is August 5th, 1882. A car was actually built in 1883. Of course there are vehicles powered by steam and other means of much earlier dates. The information is from this book:

FIAT a Fifty Years Record
Arnoldo Mondadori, 1951(1st edition, English)
Hardcover 298pp plus appendices.
With the additional information that you provided: "Italy’s input was from Enrico Bernardi (1841-1919), a Professor of Hydraulic and Agricultural Machinery at the University of Padua, who built a car in 1884 that has laid claim to being the first car in the world. Bernardi ’s engine was first used in 1882 to power a sewing machine and two years later to power his son ’s tricycle to make it a self propelled vehicle."

"...F.I.A.T gave Italy its real standing when they established a factory in 1899."

Source: http://www.ba-education.demon.co.uk/for/cars/history.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
By loose definition, an automobile has 4 wheels. The Bernardi has 3 wheels. Enrico Bernardi developed his engine in 1883-1884, but his car was not introduced until 1894, not 1883. The Benz Patent car (3 wheels) was first driven July 3, 1886. The Daimler Motor Carriage with 1 cylinder and 462 cc was developed by Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach. It too came out in 1886 but had 4 wheels. The Benz "Velo" is widely recognized as the first automobile because it had 4 wheels AND was the first volume production vehicle with production of almost 400 units. Sorry folks, the Germans win by number of wheels and date of actual introduction and driving their machine ... FYI, A steam car was rumored to have been developed as early as 1672 by a Jesuit preist named Ferdinand Verbiest.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,814 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Boy, we are getting some mileage here aren't we? Interesting read and to think DED's quote was on the back of one of my Fiat Freak Out conventions T-shirts. Our convention MC aka Bobb The Fiat Freak has used Mr. Davis's quote at many a Freak Out.

I met Mr. Davis a few years back at one of Bill Warner's Amelia Island Concours and I am sure he is still convinced of who taught the car to dance and sing. As to who invented it, whatever works for you is fine with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
It was glorious Russian inventor, Igor Servansky, invented first automobile!!! :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
Why do Italians have to always be associated with their ability for creative song and dance? When we talk automobiles I believe that there is much more to it. Many have said that it was the Italians that invented the concept of the "sports car." To what extent this is true I can only guess...but with the likes of Ferrari, Maserati, and Lamborghini compounded with Alfa's own legacy I think they have contributed much more to it than "singing and dancing."

With the exception with the "singing and dancing" line for the Italians, most of that quote is interchangable anyway. One could say that modern Fiats are disposable items and at the same time the cinquecento was just as affordable and practical for its time than anything Japan produces today.

...and the argument over who invented the automobile will be debated forever depending on what your definition of an automobile is. Last I heard, it was a French invention.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
The Germans are also up there as far as rust goes. If you've ever had a Porsche 356 from the '50s or 60's you know what I mean. Especially one from the east coast. I've had many of them and wouldn't even look at one if it came from the east.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
883 Posts
The Germans are also up there as far as rust goes. If you've ever had a Porsche 356 from the '50s or 60's you know what I mean. Especially one from the east coast. I've had many of them and wouldn't even look at one if it came from the east.
Man, it would sure be a bummer to lose one of those to the tin worm. They're just so pretty. I almost never see one that doesn't look like it's in "creampuff" shape though, so hopefully not too many are dying a rotten death.:(

The quote I always found funny concerning the rust issue was this, "The British Car Industry invented rust, and then licensed it to the Italians, who subsequently perfected it." :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
Great quote Echo Leader! Many 356s went to the junk yard in the sky before the days when you could buy a new floor and weld it in. Once a 356 has been on a salt road it was doomed. You could cut it out, but it would pop up somewhere else later. Even when someone says "No Rust", a 356 almost always does because it rusts from between the sandwiched sheets of metal that make up the body. Some people, (unlike Akitaman that cut rust out and replace with new metal), will glue new metal over the old with stuff called Duramix. It doesn't solve the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
Great quote Echo Leader! Many 356s went to the junk yard in the sky before the days when you could buy a new floor and weld it in. Once a 356 has been on a salt road it was doomed. You could cut it out, but it would pop up somewhere else later. Even when someone says "No Rust", a 356 almost always does because it rusts from between the sandwiched sheets of metal that make up the body. Some people, (unlike Akitaman that cut rust out and replace with new metal), will glue new metal over the old with stuff called Duramix. It doesn't solve the problem.
Just so I'm clear on the model designation being discussed, since most anyone can tell you math and numbers aren't by forte....is that the older Porsche before the 911 that has a similar body style but "humpier" and "choppier" with a very "teeny-tiny" two cut outs for "teeny-tiny" people in the back seat area?

I'm pretty sure that's the one that Pat liked and wanted a 356 Cabriolet, where I preferred the 911 S, E, or T as far as styling.

By loose definition, an automobile has 4 wheels. The Bernardi has 3 wheels. Enrico Bernardi developed his engine in 1883-1884, but his car was not introduced until 1894, not 1883. The Benz Patent car (3 wheels) was first driven July 3, 1886. The Daimler Motor Carriage with 1 cylinder and 462 cc was developed by Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach. It too came out in 1886 but had 4 wheels. The Benz "Velo" is widely recognized as the first automobile because it had 4 wheels AND was the first volume production vehicle with production of almost 400 units. Sorry folks, the Germans win by number of wheels and date of actual introduction and driving their machine ... FYI, A steam car was rumored to have been developed as early as 1672 by a Jesuit preist named Ferdinand Verbiest.
When I'm feeling better, I'll dig around in Pat's books and see what kind of definitions and information I can come up with so that you can continue the argument....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
Yeap, thats the one. There was an "A', "B" and "C". The "SC" had more horsepower. A '61 Cab was my second car. I have restored about 3 356 Cabriolets! Did 2 Speedsters also. If only I had the brains to keep them all. Had a few 911s also which were, of course more modern, quieter, faster and smoother driving. On Tuesday,a buddy here at work test drove a 997 that was in the Brabus showroom down the street. The body was done by TechArt and had 670HP. He said it was incredible to drive. The price was also...
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top