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Are these the same type of blades? No problem getting these in New Zealand

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #1,762
Are these the same type of blades? No problem getting these in New Zealand
Pete
Maybe those blades would work.....not sure. You can try those out when you get to that stage on your car ;). Yeah I'm afraid in our country the desire for competition in pricing seems to be lagging and a lot of selection is being reduced. For example....if I buy a certain set of wiper refills from NAPA in our country it'll cost me $20.00 ......yet the exact same part from NAPA in the US is only $7.00....this is why I'm convinced that e-commerce is going to shut down 50% of existing retailers in the next decade (if not less).
 

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Haha, I hadn't thought of that. I should dig my wipers out and try the fit!!

Pete
 

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A set of NOS rear Spica shock absorbers came up for sale recently (thank you Peter D. for putting these up for sale). This restoration had to have them... for 2 reasons, 1) new Spicas are on the fronts and I wanted to have a matching set and 2) I just did not like the minimal clearance the upper body of the Koni's had to the upper mounting pad (the Koni Bodies are much larger the Spicas).


IMG_6086.JPG

This morning I installed them. The previously installed Koni's will be used for the Montreal at some point in the future.

IMG_6138.JPG
 

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Is the yellow bungee cord also NOS and original spec? :p

This is an incredible project, I'm constantly amazed.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,766
Is the yellow bungee cord also NOS and original spec? :p

This is an incredible project, I'm constantly amazed.
Very observant of you.....but no.....it is however temporarily holding up the rear roll bar until I get to the point of finalizing the link positions. I don't recall now if they were a tight fit to the RRB ends or not.....I'll have to do a search of some threads to see what others have done to address the setting up of this. It always puzzled me as to why Alfa did not have a rotatable bushing or joint at these locations.....being pressed on like they currently are intended to be seems to result in never ending alternating shearing forces on the rubber in the bushings themselves.
 

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Rosano, The rear sway bar link bushings are not a tight fit. IIRC, there is a washer the prevents the nyloc nut from compressing the bushing. It’s been posted that some owners choose to leave the rear sway bar disconnected or omitted entirely to keep the rear end soft.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,768 (Edited)
I've read a few threads on this topic and there are arguments for & against connecting the RRB. There are also numerous posts about the bushings being loose versus tight and as well posts that describe the differences on aftermarket bushings. I'll delve in to these aspects before going one way or the other. In hindsight, my previous comment about the deflections on the rubber bushing itself....as long as these are within the max allowable for the rubber material....this should not be a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,769
With the wiper blades now sorted out more or less, it was time to get the suspension sorted out. The US model GTV’s have been fitted with longer front springs and spacers to meet bumper and headlamp height requirements…..resulting in an overly tall ride height with too much of a gap between the tire and wheel arch.

I decided to first refit the front and rear suspension as original (except for the front spring pan spacers) and measure the important suspension parameters for the various trim conditions. I tabulated the results below…

1667699


First thing I noticed is that the car is sitting higher on the right side for almost all trim conditions (especially at the rear). Second observation is that as additional weights were being added….the front did not drop as much as the rear dropped. The front springs fitted on this car are ILMA47’s which per my calculation are rather stiff @ 512 lb/in (ref DIASS 21.71.2.1 ) this might explain why most of the changes in ride heights seem to be skewed to the rear. Nonetheless overall it sits high at the front as can be seen below with trim condition F…(not the best photo angle I know…but garage space is limited).

1610512090791.png


I’d like to get the car set to a wheel arch height of around 24 ½” which is a drop of about 2”. To achieve this my research tells me that there are 3 options.

  • install OE Euro springs with a free length of 307mm and SR of 450 lb/in. Compared to the US springs @ 313.5mm (though I measured mine at 325mm).
  • Install Classic Alfa fast road springs (said to drop car by 1.5”).
  • Cut & modify existing springs.
Option 1 I will pass on for obvious reasons…availability and questionable condition of used springs.

Option 2 ….easiest but pending Option 3?

Option 3….worth trying ? My main concern is that the coils are not square ended but also not fully tangential so if the last cut coil does not contact the metal spring seat & rubber pad correctly…I can’t see this method working. The end shape of the spring needs to be restored and the only way I see that to be possible is by use of an acetylene torch with localized heat to achieve the correct angle. I realize that once heated to sufficient temperature to allow bending of the spring....the spring is locally annealed which is not ideal. But has anyone attempted this with success?

Thoughts / comments are welcomed.
 

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I think your car probably looks correct for a new 1969 car.

I wouldn't cut the springs, will make them stiffer

Pete
 

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I can answer on Option 2 as I've fitted the fast road setup on the front first and then on the rear.
At the beggining I made a mistake and put the spring pans wrong (had a 50-50 chance of doing it wrong and did it 😀) So the car was lopsided both front and rear as the skew in the chassis warps the rear as well.
Also as I found out you need to measure the front (rim to wheel arch) and calculate what size spacer you need (ONLY ONE) and divide that number by 2. In my case I had a height difference of 12mm so I used a 6mm spacer on the deep pan side to correct the offset.
At the same time I switched the rear springs to the fast road setup as the stock ones are too long and make it look like a Kangaroo with lowered front.
The ride quality is suprisingly good (with Red Koni shocks). I had more clearance issues when just the front was lowered than now, since the lowest point of the car is the oil pan and that was exacerbated by the low front / high rear.
1667732

Left is now, right is the old setup. It's barely noticable but there was a lean to the right and snout pointed downwards.
1667733

Ride height now

1667734

Kangaroo setup

1667735

Stock rear springs vs CA Fast road
 

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Hi Rossano,

Option 3 is worth trying....

This is what I did to my GTV.

DSC_3710.JPG


Once the coil was cut, I heated the end just enough to form the coil so that it would sit nicely on the metal spring seat and rubber pad.
No issues as all. Has a great firm road feel to my liking.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,774
..I think your car probably looks correct for a new 1969 car. I wouldn't cut the springs, will make them stiffer. Pete
Indeed it would increase the stiffness some.....but it will also reduce the free length and hence the installed length which will result in a drop of the suspension. I was contemplating performing a static analysis on the suspension to determine exactly how much to cut off from the spring...but I must be getting lazy in my years and am searching for the easy answers at the moment... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #1,775
....I can answer on Option 2 as I've fitted the fast road setup on the front first and then on the rear....

View attachment 1667735

Stock rear springs vs CA Fast road
Thank you for the great reply....I was looking for exactly this response for Option 2. I am surprised at the difference in free length of the rears....though it is obvious that the SR is significantly higher with those CA springs. Do you find the ride quality too harsh....or just right? I live in a metropolitan area so road conditions are generally very flat and smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,776 (Edited)
...Hi Rossano, Option 3 is worth trying....This is what I did to my GTV. Once the coil was cut, I heated the end just enough to form the coil so that it would sit nicely on the metal spring seat and rubber pad. No issues as all. Has a great firm road feel to my liking.
Hi Anthony....that's a good look. I do have a few questions though...1) Which springs did your car have to begin with? The US model springs are different than the Euro ones in that the free length is greater @318mm vs 307mm. 2) How many coils did you cut off from the front? 3) I presume you also cut the rears?...if so, how many did you cut here?
 

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All your options are reasonable, but how are you going to know for sure you are buying the correct used Euro springs? I always thought if I was to replace my springs I would buy Eibachs although CA springs seem fine as well. :) the most important thing to think about when buying springs is to make sure they are black :) I don't see the need for overly stiff springs. My GTV has used front springs from an Alfa (16mm wire, 2000 GTV I think?) with the aluminum spacers removed and additional washers between the arm and pan to lower the front a bit more. Rear has used cut Berlina or Giulia sedan springs 11.5mm wire? I can't be sure what model any of the springs were from? Without occupants, the car sits higher on the driver's side. I drive alone in the GTV 90% of the time. I can tell you my wheel arch heights but I have slightly taller diameter tires (205/60/15).
GTV no mirrors 009.JPG
mirrors 026.JPG
sepia & B&W 007.JPG
GTA rims on car spring 2012 010.JPG
....... LF 25.4", RF 25.2", LR 24.7", RR 24.6". Prior to this setup, I cut a coil off my OE Euro springs and they were too low, that is when I decided to get some used springs and try again. Make sure you put the deep pan on the passenger side, and if you have a slight variation in front spring height put the taller on the driver's side.
 

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Thank you for the great reply....I was looking for exactly this response for Option 2. I am surprised at the difference in free length of the rears....though it is obvious that the SR is significantly higher with those CA springs. Do you find the ride quality too harsh....or just right? I live in a metropolitan area so road conditions are generally very flat and smooth.
Small country here. Virtually 200Kmx100Km end to end so driven on highways, byways and badly paved ways with lots of speebumps. Ride quality is quite good without any bottoming out and no teeth rattiling. Ofcourse I have virtually no other experience with a normal suspension 105 GT so take my opinion with lots of salt 😂
 

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Thinking about this more, trying option 3 means that you are only using your time, and if not happy go with option 2. I wouldn't by used springs myself as they age

My other suggestion is to remove the wood from under the wheels, will make a huge difference to the ride height ;)
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #1,780 (Edited)
.... but how are you going to know for sure you are buying the correct used Euro springs?
The only way to be sure is to check the specs against what ALFA published in IS 21.71.2.1. The key parameters to check would be free length and wire diameter....which BTW for both the Euro and the US springs are listed at 16.6 mm (which checks out against mine). And which I might now need to investigate further cause after further scrutiny of my front springs I have one bad looking one where the coil spacings are uneven and overall the spring is warped. :( How the heck does that even happen...one spring goes amok the other doesn't?
...don't see the need for overly stiff springs...
..me neither I am happy to stay with OE ones......
...I can tell you my wheel arch heights but I have slightly taller diameter tires (205/60/15)........LF 25.4", RF 25.2", LR 24.7", RR 24.6".... Prior to this setup, I cut a coil off my OE Euro springs and they were too low, that is when I decided to get some used springs and try again. Make sure you put the deep pan on the passenger side, and if you have a slight variation in front spring height put the taller on the driver's side.
Yes your taller tires will fill the space a little more than the 14" CN36 185/70 that I have. Deep pan on PS is what I have fitted yes.
 

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