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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

I just replaced the expansion valve on my 91 164S and now I just found out that my AC POA valve has gone bad. Apparently, this runs along side the passenger side fender part#60546014 or 60559552. Can anyone help me locate a new part. I have called so many vendors and no luck. Alfa does not make this part an longer... :mad:

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 

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An A/C shop can get you a kit to replace it with a straight pipe with a pressure tap for the poa valve.
 

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Hello everyone,

I just replaced the expansion valve on my 91 164S and now I just found out that my AC POA valve has gone bad. Apparently, this runs along side the passenger side fender part#60546014 or 60559552. Can anyone help me locate a new part. I have called so many vendors and no luck. Alfa does not make this part an longer... :mad:

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
I am reluctant to give mine up but I may have one available. I won't know for sure until Wednesday.
60559552 was sold as the whole thing, hose and all. Ran around $300 ouch! N/A

Let you know.
J
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am reluctant to give mine up but I may have one available. I won't know for sure until Wednesday.
60559552 was sold as the whole thing, hose and all. Ran around $300 ouch! N/A

Let you know.
J
Alfissimo,

Thanks but I was lucky enough to find one at Alfa Exchange... Should be here on Monday.
 

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POA valve

I am not certain that the cylinder thing along the passenger side fender actually serves as a valve. Anyone know that for sure?
There is a relief valve built into the expansion valve, and it trasfers the high pressure liquid through the copper capillary tube into that cylindrical chamber on the fender. I think the valve opens based on the input of the temperature probe (freeze-up protection?). I am not certain, but I expect that the cylinder on the fender is just an expansion chamber for the liquid as it finds its way to the compressor intake side. Could something in that chamber clog up and cause your particular A/C problem? I would hate to replace parts without knowing how they function and how they could have failed to produce the symptoms!

BTW, I found that the expansion valve is pretty generic and a good match can be bought off of e-bay for <$10.
Alfahill
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am not certain that the cylinder thing along the passenger side fender actually serves as a valve. Anyone know that for sure?
There is a relief valve built into the expansion valve, and it trasfers the high pressure liquid through the copper capillary tube into that cylindrical chamber on the fender. I think the valve opens based on the input of the temperature probe (freeze-up protection?). I am not certain, but I expect that the cylinder on the fender is just an expansion chamber for the liquid as it finds its way to the compressor intake side. Could something in that chamber clog up and cause your particular A/C problem? I would hate to replace parts without knowing how they function and how they could have failed to produce the symptoms!

BTW, I found that the expansion valve is pretty generic and a good match can be bought off of e-bay for <$10.
Alfahill
The mechanic shop informed me that the POA valve was not working and I made sure that the "POA" valve (what Alfa calls it when I look up the part#) was the only thing not working. The mechanic did inform me that the lines were clogged with dirt and he cleaned it out. Never knew that dirt could get in these lines? The shop has a good reputation at fixing stuff properly so as of right now, it doesnt seem to me that they are incompetant... :) Then I thought about it... it is a 91 after all. I guess I will check EBAY for this part since Im now curious... How did you look up this part on EBAY? Relief Valve?

Thanks for the input
 

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The mechanic shop informed me that the POA valve was not working and I made sure that the "POA" valve (what Alfa calls it when I look up the part#) was the only thing not working. The mechanic did inform me that the lines were clogged with dirt and he cleaned it out. Never knew that dirt could get in these lines? The shop has a good reputation at fixing stuff properly so as of right now, it doesnt seem to me that they are incompetant... :) Then I thought about it... it is a 91 after all. I guess I will check EBAY for this part since Im now curious... How did you look up this part on EBAY? Relief Valve?

Thanks for the input
Buy OEM Expansion valves, they are made by EATON. The generic ones are almost always made in China and fail pretty fast. Learn from me. I made that mistake. I went cheap route and now have to put in the OEM. A/C shop here in town who has the best rep. says that EATON are the best.
I replaced it for no reason but to replace it with a new because I replaced everything else.

ALSO the POA valve needs to be set to the correct refrigerant so if your with R12, make sure you got a used POA valve for R12 and with R134a as well. A good A/C guy can calibrate a valve.
The 164 valve is very similar to
DELCO #15-51 GENERAL MOTORS POA VALVE get this from 66-73. :)


A system flush is always a good thing. Replace r/d, o-rings, use NYLOG on all o-rings and threads. Flushing the system at least 3 times and nitrogen at the end to dry them out so no water is present in the system which can freeze up and clog expansion valve.
Also evac. the System for at least an hour!!

Basically the POA is essentially an evaporator pressure regulator that prevents the evap pressure from going below its setpoint thus preventing evap freeze up.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Great info thanks! For now, I got a used Alfa POA valve but intend on buying a new one per your recommendations..
 

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Expansion valve

The part from e-bay that I referred to was the expasion valve. The one I got came in a Napa box and was for a GM vehicle. I think many european cars use a similar part.
The POA valve is still a mystery to me. I don't even know what POA stands for, which may help ascertain its function! I am under the impression that the expansion valve regulates the pressure upstream of the evaporator, so the role of a separate (POA) valve is still not clear. -Alfahill
 

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The part from e-bay that I referred to was the expasion valve. The one I got came in a Napa box and was for a GM vehicle. I think many european cars use a similar part.
The POA valve is still a mystery to me. I don't even know what POA stands for, which may help ascertain its function! I am under the impression that the expansion valve regulates the pressure upstream of the evaporator, so the role of a separate (POA) valve is still not clear. -Alfahill
POA: Pilot-Operated Absolute Valve OR EDR Valve.

A term standing for "pilot operated absolute" and is a modification of a suction throttling valve which has a metal bellows with a vacuum instead of a diaphragm; it provides more accurate evaporator pressure control, allowing for lower evaporator temperatures without cone icing, Located between the evap and compressor.


The Expansion Valve A part of an air-conditioning system, located between the condenser and the evaporator that regulates the flow of liquid refrigerant to the vaporator. If cooling needs are low, the valve is almost closed; as additional cooling is required, the valve opens wider so that more liquid refrigerant flows to the evaporator. It reduces the pressure from the high side to the low side and is operated by pressure. Also called an automatic expansion valve (AEV) or "thermostatic expansion valve."

Eaton OEM expansion valve shown :


I would not use anything else.
The 164 European Models including Q4 don't seem to use a POA valve.
 

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My A/c shop claims the poa valve isn't needed and he can get a kit to replace it with basically a straight pipe.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Received the POA valve and had it installed and now the A/C systems works fine. The only drawback is that the previous owner converted the system using R134A and its not as cols as the original R12. It still gets cold though dont get me wrong... :cool: However, the new freon is much cheaper than the original. Too bad the weather here in northern california has been cool of late cause Im curious to see how cold it does get on a hot day Im thinking around 60 degrees.
 

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Received the POA valve and had it installed and now the A/C systems works fine. The only drawback is that the previous owner converted the system using R134A and its not as cols as the original R12. It still gets cold though dont get me wrong... :cool: However, the new freon is much cheaper than the original. Too bad the weather here in northern california has been cool of late cause Im curious to see how cold it does get on a hot day Im thinking around 60 degrees.
I am getting 47-54˚F from the vents with R134.
All about the condenser. The old R12 condenser is not efficient with R134 and barely with R12 after years of use.
Bad expansion valve, too much oil and what not can reduce cooling.

At least it is not humid and hot like here. I am sure when it dries up here I will be getting low mid to low 40's from the vents.

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hmmmm I guess I will ask the mechanic if the condensor is the original or if it has been replaced. So do you suggest that if the A/C does not blow cold enough air to get a new R134condensor for better results? I did put in a new expansion valve OEM
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just spoke with the mechanic and gave him your temp readings and he said that its pretty cold but every car is going to be a little different. He is not sure how extensive the conversion of my A/C system was done however he did state that the system is working properly and that it only had 3/4 of a pound of freon and it normally hold 2.5 pounds of freon.That alone will make a difference since he filled it. He said that the possible replacement of the condensor could make a difference.....
 

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I think it's generally accepted that the 164 condensers are marginally sized. Question is...Do you want to spend the money to put a bigger one in? I guess that depends on your location and how much it gets used.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think it's generally accepted that the 164 condensers are marginally sized. Question is...Do you want to spend the money to put a bigger one in? I guess that depends on your location and how much it gets used.
I guess I'll make that determination when I get the car back form the shop and wait for a hot day... My guess is that it will be good enough..... You stated that I could get a bigger condensor. How..., from a different model, different year and are they expensive?
 

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I guess I'll make that determination when I get the car back form the shop and wait for a hot day... My guess is that it will be good enough..... You stated that I could get a bigger condenser. How..., from a different model, different year and are they expensive?
If good enough is good for you then don't replace the condenser. I have new 164 condensers that are Parallel flow around 16X27, pretty much takes up the whole space in front and mounts up just fine. All aluminum and made here in the US.
http://www.alfissimo.com/index.php?productID=95
not pushing it on but it is an upgraded unit to new technology, more surface area to remove the heat faster. Most of my customers using are very happy with the results. Some getting very low 40's to upper 30's from r12 and r134 from the vents.
I myself with 100˚F with Humidity around 40%+ lately, I am seeing 46-51˚F vent temps using R134.
But I need as cold as I can get here. LOL!

You may be fine with your set up but it is an option maybe in the future.

At least it is up an going, running good no issues. Thats what counts

Also may want to temp the vents while driving that 60˚F temp may go down 10˚F after some driving.
JAson
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If good enough is good for you then don't replace the condenser. I have new 164 condensers that are Parallel flow around 16X27, pretty much takes up the whole space in front and mounts up just fine. All aluminum and made here in the US.
http://www.alfissimo.com/index.php?productID=95
not pushing it on but it is an upgraded unit to new technology, more surface area to remove the heat faster. Most of my customers using are very happy with the results. Some getting very low 40's to upper 30's from r12 and r134 from the vents.
I myself with 100˚F with Humidity around 40%+ lately, I am seeing 46-51˚F vent temps using R134.
But I need as cold as I can get here. LOL!

You may be fine with your set up but it is an option maybe in the future.

At least it is up an going, running good no issues. Thats what counts

Also may want to temp the vents while driving that 60˚F temp may go down 10˚F after some driving.
JAson

Wow... you are a wealth of info... Thank you so much. How do I temp the vents? Is there a special temp tool I can buy to monitor this at a car parts store??
 
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